wagzisnotadrummerToontrack, I love and use C&V SDX for Superior Drummer 2, but I often find myself wanting deeper, lower tuned snares, other micing options, and the sweet tone and feel of tape. C&V 1 has been out for a while and I think Toontrack could use a new SDX in their library. Please, Toontrack, release a new “tracked to tape” version of the C&V SDX.
I am looking for vintage vibe/tone similar to C&V 1, but on steroids, basically. Here are my requests:
1.Keep the damped sound, using the same drums, studio, and drummer (as C&V 1) but with extras like more low tunings, tea towel drums(a bit more damped), and two different stick sizes(thick or jazzy).
2. Vintage console (API/Dalcon), and mics (wherever possible) tracked to TAPE!!!– Gotta have it! This is absolutely crucial. I think it’s one of the main reasons I love the drums on old records and albums, and I don’t think it’s just me. Have you noticed all of the interest in tape plugins?
3. Need more more soft snare hits and cross sticks.
This is primarily what I’m after:
This nails the exact sound I want. Listen to that punch!:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=noSc9c3J_2Y
This(for the example of softer hits). Just look at this drummer. LOL. The grin on his face is priceless.:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tIdIqbv7SPo
Here’s another good example of what I want:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=y5_PQbYdtK8
I have posted my petition at Gearslutz, but I’ll ask here, too. Any of you ladies and gents that are after this sound and want Toontrack to release an SDX tracked to tape that is aimed at achieving these sounds, please, chime in! What do you say? Yea or nay?
http://soundcloud.com/blackdaddywarbuxxx
Romanp Yup, they have to.
Enough modern ringing drums. It’s time to get dirty and tight.
Dampened funk, reggae etc drums. Tunings. Sidesticks for every drum. I wouldn’t say no to tape. I would say YES!
And when you’ve finished volume 1 do volume 2, 3, 4 forever ha ha!
Romanp Please more dampened drums, tunings, sidesticks, tape saturated (moderately perhaps is safest). Heavily dampened.
Listen to late 60s early 70s dance music.
Please my Swedish friends.
Roman.
Romanp Melvin Bliss- Synthetic Substitution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0T48Qwn4dA
The Honeydrippers – Impeach the President
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqbEsS5kFb8
Lafayette Afro Rock Band – Hihache
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3ckIovZRwk&feature=related
Fonky!
Whitten Have you heard the original C&V yet? I know you said you had it on order.
C&V covers a lot of retro soul and funk territory, as well as the contemporary artists who are influenced by that sound.
I don’t see the point of posting lists of classic funk albums unless they specifically illustrate something Toontrack don’t have in their product line.
Juicy With all the excellent gear we have ITB we could do the tape saturation,vinyl emulation vintage EQ, vintage compression, vintage plate reverb to the existing libraries and get very close to this stuff.I guess people want it all done for them.
Real Vinyl and Tape with Gritty old gear is Intriguing from a purest POV,i can see the TT marketing team have a right royal field day taking The Classic and C&V1 even further with a fully sic and Authentic type of
RETRO VIBE. SDX
Get the Flared Denim and get a move on Mr Whitten.
Romanp hello Chris Whitten and Juicy.
Yup I got SD2, C&V, YMF, FM, LP, Rsticks and Claustro.
I have a bit of studio tidying to do before I can try them out.
I humbly accept that I am speaking from complete ignorance as far as actually using the product.
I have a simple mentality that when I hear different styles of drums that I need those as a new drum kit. New samples etc.
Just like every breakbeat sounds different. And we love them all.
But hearing Abbey roads demos that switch mic positions as the drummer plays taught me alot.
It taught me that different drum sounds can be hugely dependant on the mic position and resuulting sound.
This is new technology having velocity layers, round robins and multiple mics.
Add in eq, layering, amplitude envelope etc etc and there may be huge scope for tailoring drum sounds.
Then add in my reel to reel and analogue mixer and spring reverb etc.
So coming from a hip hop sampling records guy. Every records drums sound unique. Some more than others.
This raises the question how different can drums sound.
The toontrack stuff should be a pretty good education on the different snares etc.
What did the famous breakbeats sound like in the room?
As juicy mentioned. What about plate reverb etc.
This will be my exciting mission. Using toontrack sounds, analogue hardware and maybe UAD EMT140 plate reverb, I could try to get the sounds close to the break beats.
So how much ground is covered by the toontrack libraries and especially C&V will be revealed to me soon.
Until then I am assuming the need for more drum kits. But I am coming from the listener, sampling perspective.
Hearing the different mics on the same kit on the Abbey road demos was a real eye opener for me.
I am glad that the drummer from C&V us confident in the sounds provided. I am sure you all understand my perspective to a certain extent.
Real vinyl wasn’t mentioned by any posters.
Tape worked wonders for the Abbey Road drum kits.
I am sure there are many drum sounds that aren’t covered by the current TT libraries. Because there are so many variables and sounds out there.
And lastly, I really appreciate the work TT and the library developers have done. It is the next step in drum sampling technology and realism for me. I am loving my TD3 kit.
I bought a pair of Zildjian 14 inch A Customs. Because I always had a plan to use a real hihat with the TD3 kit.
I’m gonna get a 13 inch next.
It is amazing the drum sounds those funk groups got.
Romanp I gave to confess that thise breaks like ‘impeach’ and ‘synthetic’ are just pure engmas to me.
Why have we not had such uniquely characterful drums since the late 60s early 70s?
Why do most modern drums all sound like a million dollar studio rock kit.
Listen to ‘impeach’. How would that snare have sounded as a direct acoustic sound.
I am certain there is a huge amount of distortion on that snare. It is one of the most sampled sounds ever. So punchy.
It would seem too limiting to produce a drum product with that much distortion if it could be personally decided.
But noone gets sounds like that nowadays.
I just marvel at ‘synthetic’ I’ve never heard another drum sound like it. So punchy. What would that drum kit have sounded like in the room. Apparently it is Bernard Purdie on that track.
What drum kit did Zigaboo play. Loudest snare ever on ‘cardova’.
Fascinating.
wagzisnotadrummerORIGINAL: juicy
With all the excellent gear we have ITB we could do the tape saturation,vinyl emulation vintage EQ, vintage compression, vintage plate reverb to the existing libraries and get very close to this stuff.I guess people want it all done for them.
juicy, I don’t “want it all done for me” but I am after a certain sound and vibe that I don’t quite have yet. That’s why I have requested the further expansion of this library. In my experience, software plugins don’t typically best their analog hardware equivalents. So, even though I have nice tape plugins I would prefer that the next library of this type that I buy be tracked to quality tape, as I believe it would be more in line with the sound I want.
Heck, I could get by without Toontrack tracking to tape but I would still like them to expand this library with more damped drums and lower tunings, at least. I really do like what was done with C&V. All I’m really asking for is to have some more colors to choose from.
Btw, I found out why I like that drummer in the Bill Withers vid. That’s the legendary James Gadson! He played on Beck’s “Sea Change”(using some of his own vintage drums from the 70’s) … as well as those albums by McCartney and Withers that sound awesome. It’s no wonder I liked his playing in the vid! I am not a drummer…so, I didn’t know who he was. Now, I do!
Maybe Toontrack could just sample him or at least try to get him to do a James Gadson Signature Series expansion (with grooves). I don’t understand why there aren’t Signature Series expansions of legends like James Gadson. There is a reason why he has been sampled so often. I believe I would buy a James Gadson SDX in a heartbeat! Now, if it was recorded in the same production style as C&V and made to the same quality I would definitely buy it. I’d pay up front before it was even released.
http://soundcloud.com/blackdaddywarbuxxx
Juicy Its not you i meant Wagz. I do get” your original post
No harm in more libraries.as the sessions parameters are important , to be more specific.
Thinking just more different drums will give sounds of every record you can name is not the story,it’s not really the drums.
In reality the drummers tuning and touch, tthat is what gives character to breakbeats and in that i believe people should use the functions in SD2 to give them some of those variations and then their daw not just expect TT to provide the sound print of every mix down ever made, they have provided the start point.
in some ways we are spoiled for choice, the Stones,the Beatles had ludwig and gretsch kits, thats it,we have those and so many,many more drums already,
i am always re discovering great sounds with tweaking these libraries from Hit Factory ,Allaire,Avatar and Roots,C&V,TMF plus the Original DFH,plus all the EZx’s
It is not the drums but the mixing.turn off the close mics in Roots and listen to sounds that will be different and very old school plus quality,use a thrash distorted mic only in a verse,crank up the close room on just the snare and gate it or play with envelopes and hear all the funk your momma can handle,thats where it is.
MIXING.
NathanGot to second Juicy on this. I bought a bunch of producer presets to see what the guys do to the drum and room sounds, and I’ve been impressed with the variety and range of results got out of basic original kit sounds.
Once you’ve got quality drum source sounds, it’s amazing how you can shape these kits; I thought I was pretty good at drum mixing, but I’ve learned much more, things I would not have thought of doing, things I didn’t really use aptly demonstrated.
So much is acheivable in the mix…
>
SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.
wagzisnotadrummerToday, I’ve been going through the presets(as suggested)to see what some of these guys are doing. I can get pretty close to what I want ,now(which is intimate. dry. punchy. natural). I’ll keep at it, but things are sounding pretty sweet now! Thanks for the advice, juicy and planetnine. Well, I am by no means an amazing…or even good mixer . And, I realize that I have still have lots to learn, but I would still like more lower tuned snares for this library. The transient smears when i change things just a little.
Regarding mixing and presets, the “Sidestick Ballad” demo on the C&V page sounds pretty grand, in my opinion. It sounds punchy, yet dry and very intimate. A bit of distortion was used to get this particular sound, but it sounds good in this song. Is there a producer pack preset for this? I’d like to know which kit(s) were used for this and how they were processed.
http://soundcloud.com/blackdaddywarbuxxx
NathanDunno, doesn’t seem to be on the supplied Presets or the Peter Henderson add-on pack I downloaded. Might be on one of the Chris Pitman packs, but they only put two demo tracks on the site for each of his two C&V Producer Preset packs (and two of them are the same track).
Can’t help you here, TT seem to miss marketing opportunities quite often like this. Don’t worry fellas, we’re only customers -wasn’t like we were going to buy any stuff or anything
Getting info out of them about the PPs is like squeezing blood out of a stone. I think we’re expected to either guess or download them from a torrent to try before we buy Ooh, was that out loud?!!
It’s a fantastic product, but the information gaps leave me flummoxed sometimes
Edit: There’re oly two demos on the Miles McPherson PP page too, and neither sounds like, or like the drums on “Sidestick Ballad”…
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SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.
wagzisnotadrummerWell, I contacted Toontrack to ask them. This was their reply:
” we’re sorry, but we don’t have that information available. The demo was created over three years ago and we’re afraid we haven’t saved the session file. Sorry!
Have a nice weekend!
Best regards,
Toontrack Music “
oh well. I’ll just have to make up my own kits and presets. No biggie, but I would really like to know because they did a really good job on that demo.
http://soundcloud.com/blackdaddywarbuxxx
Jay CooverWould like to see a saturation emulation plug-in as well as a reverb added to the SD effects.
SD 2.3 NY vol 2/Metal Foundry/C & V/Roots 1 & 2/Music City Latin Percussion/Funkmasters/The Classic/Jazz/Pop!/#1 Hits/Electronic/Twisted/Claustrophobic EZKeys 1.1 with all the trimmings
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