Can Cakewalk automation change the sound of an EZkeys2 instrument?

[Patrick Rowles]

Hi everyone. I’m trying to get Cakewalk automation to change the sound of the Electric R-MK I piano in EZkeys2 (I want to be able to switch between the 1970s and Soft Ballad presets as part of the song’s arrangement). I think I’ve done what’s required in EZkeys2, i.e. toggled ‘Allow MIDI Bank Select’ to On and set ‘MIDI In Channel’ to Any (Default).

If I open the relevant parameter drop-down on the Cakewalk instrument track associated with the EZkeys2 plug-in, I’m offered the options Clips, Audio Transients, and Automation. Automation has sub-options including EZkeys2, which in turn has sub-options comprising Bypass, Param [1 thru 16], and MIDI CC 0|0.

If I enable Read automation on the instrument track and create an envelope (i.e. horizontal line) for the MIDI CC 0|0 parameter, I find that dragging the envelope up and down during playback changes the instrument selection in the EZkeys2 plug-in (I’ve got the default piano, two electric pianos, Mellotoon and the String Machine). However, I can’t see any way to keep the instrument the same and change only its sound.

I’ve found when working with EZmix that Cakewalk automatically ‘knows’ which of the plug-in’s parameters are automatable, making it simple to create the required envelope, but I’m still quite inexperienced with using MIDI. Is there a way to achieve my objective, other than having a second instance of EZkeys2 with the other sound preset? Can you somehow associate the EZkeys2 instrument’s sound settings with the numbered parameters (i.e. Param [1 thru 16]) that Cakewalk recognises, the way you can in a plug-in like Amplitube? Thanks in advance for any help!

• This topic was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Patrick Rowles. Reason: Typos

Topic

[John]

Hi,

to switch Presets within a library, just use ‘Program Change’.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Patrick Rowles]

Sorry, John – while I appreciate the reply, I’m going to need a bit more to go on! I already searched the EZkeys2 online manual for “program change” before posting the topic, and can’t see anything in the results (https://www.toontrack.com/manual/ezkeys-2/?type=manual_ezkeys2&search=program+change) explaining how to do this, only how to set up EZkeys2’s MIDI Input Settings. Further help would be greatly appreciated. (Also, even though it’s obvious from the graphic in the manual that they’re the same thing, the ‘Allow MIDI Program Change’ toggle is now labelled ‘Allow MIDI Bank Select’.)

[John]

Hi,

if you have toggled on ‘Allow MIDI Program Change’ in the EZkeys 2 plug-in, you have done what is needed in EZkeys 2.
The next thing you need to do is to send a ‘Program Change’ message from your host to the plug-in. How exactly this is done depends on host.
CC#0 BankMSB switches library, Program Change switches presets.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Patrick Rowles]

Thanks again, John – I was afraid that it would be something I needed to change in the DAW. Cakewalk’s documentation is comprehensive, but not always clear if you don’t understand the concepts well.

I’ve got the Output on the MIDI track set to EZkeys2, and there’s a topic on the Cakewalk forums wherein the answer to a question very similar to mine says to “select a channel (1-16), select a bank and then select the patch”.

There’s a MIDI track drop-down labelled ‘C’, which I assume means Channel, and sure enough it has 17 options: they are ‘None’, and a list of 16, from ‘1: EZkeys2′ to ’16: EZkeys2’. There are two additional MIDI track drop-downs labelled ‘B’ (Is that ‘Bank’?) and ‘P’ (‘Patch’?). Whichever selection I make from the Channel list, the ‘B(ank)’ options are always ‘None’ and ‘0-bank 0’. Similarly, the ‘P(atch)’ options are always ‘None’ and a list of numbers from 0 to 127. Changing them doesn’t seem to make any difference, even when I save the Cakewalk project (on the off-chance that changes I’ve made in the DAW would then be picked up by EZkeys2)

Not your problem, I know, but is there any way to tell which Channel/Bank/Patch selections correspond to which instrument/sound selections in EZkeys2? At one point, dragging the MIDI CC 0|0 parameter envelope up and down on the EZkeys2 instrument track in Cakewalk was changing the instrument in EZkeys2 (e.g. from Session Grand to Mellotoon), but even that seems to have stopped happening now.

It would be really nice to know how to do this, but I can always fall back on using a second instance of EZkeys2, I suppose.

[John]

Hi,

I am not familiar with Cakewalk (BandLab?) these days, I think I had Sonar version 6 installed long ago. Isn’t there an Event Editor that you can insert PC to?

Using MIDI CC#0 will select different libraries, yes. If you have 3 libraries installed, they will respond to MIDI CC#0 ‘0’,’1′ and ‘2’ values. With 3 libraries installed any value from 3 and upwards will not change anything.

If there aren’t any other Cakewalk users here that can chime in, I’m afraid your best bet is on the Cakewalk forum.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Patrick Rowles]

“Isn’t there an Event Editor that you can insert PC to?” Yes, I looked at that in the Cakewalk docs, but am none the wiser; you can choose Insert > Bank/Patch change to execute said change at the ‘now’ time marker, but again I don’t know what options to choose from the dialog that is presented after choosing that menu option. The parameters are: –

Output: 0 (which is hardcoded)
Channel: 1 (also hardcoded)
Bank Select Method: a drop-down with four options named ‘Normal*’, ‘Controller 0’, ‘Controller 32’, and ‘Path 100..’
Bank: a drop-down with only one entry, ‘—‘, regardless of which Bank Select Method you choose
Patch: a drop-down list of 128 sounds, including instruments of all kinds, and various sounds (e.g. Helicopter, Applause, Gunshot)

Also, when you say, “If you have 3 libraries installed”, I don’t get what you mean. From my perspective, the sounds I’m trying to get the DAW to change using MIDI automation commands are within EZkeys2, e.g. Electric R-MK I piano has 10 sound settings (1970s, Chorus, Soft Ballad, etc.).

I’m coming to the conclusion that what I’m trying to do (which I was basing on my long experience with EZmix) isn’t possible. When I’ve added the EZmix plugin to a Cakewalk audio track’s FX bin, EZmix gets added to the list of things I can automate from within that track, and I’m prompted to choose which EZmix parameter I’d like to automate, from a list of 4 named options: Shape 1, Shape 2, Input and Output. The automation envelope I create then controls that parameter. Similarly, if I tell the Amplitube guitar FX plugin to associate its own Parameter 1 with a specific amplifier model’s channel switching, Cakewalk immediately ‘knows’ that the relevant audio track’s automation envelope for Parameter 1 of Amplitube switches between the amp’s channels (or changes gain/bass/treble pot values, and so forth).

I think this means I’ll be using a second EZkeys2 in the song, but thanks for your time and effort, John.

• This post was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Patrick Rowles.

[John]

Hi,

with libraries, I was referring to the different EZK:s, like ‘Soul Roads One’, ‘Dark Industrial’, ‘Cinematic Grand’, etc. These would be changed by the Bank Select (CC#0) message followed by a value corresponding to the library number in your list.

EZK Presets would be changed with Patch select in your case (Program Change).

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

1

Thanked by: Patrick Rowles

[Patrick Rowles]

I appreciate the ongoing help, John, but I don’t think we’re getting anywhere. I’ve been reading Cakewalk help pages and watching Cakewalk tutorial videos on MIDI and MIDI instruments, but nothing seems to address the issue. (One comes tantalisingly close, showing how to send MIDI from one Cakewalk track via two MIDI channels to the same synth plugin, but that relies on setting up the synth itself to accept MIDI input via two channels, each patched to a different sound.)

You say the libraries correspond to the different EZK:s, with examples, and I’ve also now looked at the EZkeys2 help about the Libraries tab, so that makes a bit more sense. If that’s the case, based on the screen shot of my set-up that I’m going to try to include, is the Electric R-MK I library number 2 (given that it’s the second one in the top-right drop-down list of libraries, after EZkeys 2 Session Grand) for me?

And even if so, your instructions seem only to explain how to change the EZkeys2 instrument (e.g. from Electric R-MK I to Mellotoon) by changing the library (which is something I’d sort of achieved by automating the MIDI CC 0|0 parameter envelope on the instrument track for EZkeys2), whereas I want to change the sound preset of the Electric R-MK I instrument (e.g from Standard to Soft Ballad).

• This post was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Patrick Rowles.

[fossile]

i think the issue may be something that changed in the new version? in the help file, it shows the switch as “program change”, in the newest version, it shows “change bank” which is a higher level like the piano itself versus a program change which would be the sound of the piano…

EZkeys 2 plug-in version 2.0.2 (build 37743) [64-bit VST 3]

SOUND LIBRARIES
EZkeys 2 Session Grand version 1.0.1

MIDI LIBRARIES
Acoustic Pop version 1.0.0
Ballads version 1.1.0
Classic Soul version 1.1.0
Country version 1.1.0
EZkeys 1 version 1.3.5
EZkeys 2 version 1.0.1
Gospel version 1.1.0
Latin Ballads version 1.0.0

 

Glenn

www.runnel.com
www.reverbnation.com/fossile

[fossile]

so in CW, the channel and bank are active, but the program selection has no action on the EZK sound (program) selected.

Glenn

www.runnel.com
www.reverbnation.com/fossile

1

Thanked by: Patrick Rowles

[Patrick Rowles]

Thanks, Glenn – appreciate the input. I’d come to the conclusion that either (a) it couldn’t be done, or (b) it could but I was too stupid to work out how! I ended up doing what I’d always done before embarking on this, i.e. having two separate synths in Cakewalk, and cloning the MIDI track such that it was active only when the synth it belonged to was required to play.

[fossile]

it would be nice for the app/plugin to restore the program change (as well as keep the bank setting too) option. 🙂 the we could build (or buy) articulation maps to control the piano (although might be an issue if load time is needed versus the instrument is cached), and sound options versus purely relying on MIDI “key switches”…

Glenn

www.runnel.com
www.reverbnation.com/fossile

[John]

i think the issue may be something that changed in the new version? in the help file, it shows the switch as “program change”, in the newest version, it shows “change bank” which is a higher level like the piano itself versus a program change which would be the sound of the piano…

No, it can definitely be done, just not in Cakewalk (or so it seems). I have no problems whatsoever changing both libraries and presets in e.g. Logic via Program Change and MIDI CC messages.

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[fossile]

hmmm, maybe the version you’re using still has “program change” as a MIDI option vs mine v2.0.2 which only has “Bank Selection”

Glenn

www.runnel.com
www.reverbnation.com/fossile

[John]

Well, you’re partly right, I do not have an old version but I totally missed that this is different in the VST3 version of the plugin. In Standalone, AU and AAX it works as I have described. I am not sure why the VST3 is limited this way but there has to be a good reason, it is not a mistake or bug.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

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