MintberryCrunch
Participant
Topics Started: 23
Replies Created: 175
Has Thanked: 6
Been Thanked: 19
MintberryCrunchYou’ll find that the Original Mix for all 3 core libraries introduces 0 ms latency
I get the following latency report when loading “Original Mix” (in different DAWs) :
at 48 khz : 17 samples ( 0.35 ms ) ; at 88.2 khz : 32 samples ; at 96 khz : 35 samples
Why is only 44.1 kHz project sample rate a 0 from EZ3 latency report (and 48+ kHz significantly higher in this comparativeness with those marginal latencies)?
Why has EZDrummer2 always kept quiet about those (preset) latencies -> reported latency always: 0 samples no matter what preset has been loaded or what project sample rate has been set.
…and again the question: Why are these by-DAW-shown values not reported in EZ3 stand alone (and also not in SD3 standalnoe)?
(When a preset adds around 1.5 ms -which I found with some EZXes- then the audio stream output latency is of course not equivalent to the reported audio driver latency.)
MintberryCrunchAnother example for the importance of a sample pool editor:
There are not only clearly “buggy” samples with digital clicking or other noises (which are definitely a producer error) BUT also samples which the user ( -> e-drummer) won’t like (in terms of character and sound colour -> dodgy / unsuitable / peculiar samples) and would want to get rid of! (I absolutely hate them disturbing the enjoyable sound from the good samples -> there is no chance to get rid of them with Toontrack sample pool black boxes and THIS is a super weak point of Superior Drummer. I mean if I look at other drum samplers (like the many Kontakt drum libs): I can edit the sample pool in Kontakt and in BFD2/3 as well.
If you don’t check these libraries for authentical behaviour/sound with e-drums there will always be somthing like this: * EXAMPLES
BTW, the “feels+sounds like squeaking” example happens at a super important sweet spot velocity range (around 100).
And the annyoing acute noise on open/semi open sounds happens on more than the shown sample/example.
After playing a little bit around with it it’s getting harder and harder for me to take a some SD3 libs/kit pieces seriously. And I’m absolutely shure that at least if you don’t check these libraries for authentical behaviour/sound with e-drums you won’t be able to resolve and handle this: if you had just fixed one dodgy sample a further one will be detected by the player. Also, sound is a matter of taste and of course the whole topic regarding acoustic drum and cymbal samples is kinda critical and you cannot tell and know what samples in a certain round-robin playing a user would like show up and what samples he would like to avoid. So I say it again!: The solution is very simple!: A sample pool editor is needed because this all is not acceptable to a demanding e-drummer and extremly lowers the quality of the supposed flagship sampler on VSTi-e-drumming!
* EXAMPLES:
F-O-R-Stone–Mantra Hihat-ClosedEdge -16th notes -feels+sounds like squeaking [ Occurance/Range: vel 94 – 101 ; Voice And Layer: default ]
–> 00:00 – 00:15 defauft preset without FX.
Download-LINK ( password: Toontrack-SD3-Forum )
——-
F-O-R-Stone–Mantra Hihat-opening process–OpenEdge2-annyoing acute noise [ Occurance/Range: vel 118 – 126 ; Voice And Layer: default ]
–> 00:00 – 00:15 defauft preset without FX.
–> 00:16 – 00:32 defauft preset with EQ (in order to emphasize the annoying frequencies) : HPF at 290Hz , (left channel only): +7dB at 8600Hz.
Download-LINK ( password: Toontrack-SD3-Forum )
MintberryCrunchthere’s an update in the product manager, Fields of Rock it’s now 1.0.2, so maybe something has been fixed?
No (at lest with the mentioned hihat and the ride samples): no changes.
MintberryCrunchF-O-R-Stone–Mantra Hihat-ClosedEdge -16th notes -feels+sounds like squeaking [ Occurance/Range: vel 94 – 101 ; Voice And Layer: default ]
–> 00:00 – 00:15 defauft preset without FX.
Download-LINK ( password: Toontrack-SD3-Forum )
——-
F-O-R-Stone–Mantra Hihat-opening process–OpenEdge2-annyoing acute noise [ Occurance/Range: vel 118 – 126 ; Voice And Layer: default ]
–> 00:00 – 00:15 defauft preset without FX.
–> 00:16 – 00:32 defauft preset with EQ (in order to emphasize the annoying frequencies) : HPF at 290Hz , (left channel only): +7dB at 8600Hz.
Download-LINK ( password: Toontrack-SD3-Forum )
MintberryCrunchShootie wrote: New With Live 11. “MIDI Polyphonic Expression” No, PolyPressure is not supported with this MPE feature.
new insights into this topic (AL11 + Polyphonic Aftertouch) 
:
Ableton Live 11 Cymbal Choking FIX for nearly any e-drum module
1
Thanked by: Mike SheardMintberryCrunchThe reported samples are only an example as I did research only on 2 of the Agop Mantra Hihat articulations and on 1 of the Xist Brilliant Ride. Also (other than the Hihat ‘Open Tip 0’ articulation), I’ve checked (and done research on) the Hihat ‘Pedal Closed’ articulation and the mentioned Ride articulation (‘Bow Tip 2’) only with default numbers of layers – so there are more!.
So I’m absoultely sure that it would be best if you quality-checked ALL Fields Of Rock samples again!* as I see from your answers that releasing an editor tool does not obtain your approval.
*…because as I already mentioned: what do you think will I find when loading other kit pieces / articulations / layers if you only fix my listed samples?
MintberryCrunchBTW, I really love the sounds from Fields Of Rock. It’s propably one of the greatest drum libs ever.
[-> I wish I could say this BUT when I check all these shitty noises that are spoiling the e-drum fun I’m super disappointed. I hardly dare to play around with especially all the hihat models the lib provides because I’m afraid that the disappointment will again be hard… -> Cannot belive that especially some of the greatest hihat and cymbal sounds (love the Agops!!! and bought the lib because of them in the first place) cause such problems on e-drums]
MintberryCrunchWhat will be the alternative to a user sample pool editor?
-> Telling the support exactly what samples the culprits are by naming them with all referring information (exact articulation/velocity/velocity range, ‘Voice And Layer’ setting)? Do you have an idea of how arduous it is to do reseach on buggy samples? (I mean finding meticulously out about these samples -which were only in less than a handful of articulations, btw- took me nearly a whole day of complex work!)
I can’t imagine that you would be happy if I told you every three days ‘hello support, hihat/cymbal/drum model ‘X’ produced some buggy noise today when I was e-drumming’. Do YOU want to do all the research? -> This I really cannot imagine. You would have to do research and fixes on samples for nearly every relevant articulation: and I’m sure this will be extremly much on SDXes like F.O.R.: a horrendous work with no end in sight on those tons of kit pieces/articulations/samples from these newer SDXes! And then?? Have to wait until you come up with a sample pool update some months/half a year later??
MintberryCrunch“Fields Of Rock – Stone” : 15″ Istanbul Agop Mantra -Hi-Hat – “Open Tip 0” and “Pedal Closed” articulation 21″ Istanbul Agop Xist Brilliant Ride – “Bow Tip 2” articulation 17″x12″ Sonor Sonorlite -Bass Drum – “Open” articulation
.
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__OpenTip0–Vel-25–issue-digitalCrackle -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 17 – 25 ; Voice And Layer: 8 – (-) ] – severe
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__OpenTip0–Vel-25–issue-squeaking -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 17 – 25 ; Voice And Layer: 4(default) ] – severe
–Hihat-Mantra__OpenTip0–Vel-25-Sequence-6Strokes -> [ digitalCrackle + squeaking: stroke 3 + 4 ]
—
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__OpenTip0–Vel-30–issue-MegaCracking -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 26 – 32 ; Voice And Layer: 7 – (-) ] – severe
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__OpenTip0–Vel-30–issue-digitalCracking -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 26 – 32 ; Voice And Layer: 6 – (-) ] – severe
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__OpenTip0–Vel-30–issue-squeaking -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 26 – 32 ; Voice And Layer: 4(default) ] – medium
–Hihat-Mantra__OpenTip0–Vel-30-Sequence-12Strokes -> [ MegaCracking + digitalCracking + squeaking: stroke 7 + 9 + 3,5,8 ]
—
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__OpenTip0–Vel-38–issue-squeaking -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 33 – 39 ; Voice And Layer: 6 – (-) ] – severe
–Hihat-Mantra__OpenTip0–Vel-38-Sequence-16Strokes -> [ squeaking: you’ll find out which strokes are the buggy sample ]
—
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__OpenTip0–Vel-53–issue-Crackle -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 48 – 50 ; Voice And Layer: 5 – (-) ] – severe
–Hihat-Mantra__OpenTip0–Vel-53-Sequence-16Strokes -> [ Crackle: stroke 11 + 15 ]
—
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__OpenTip0–Vel-80–issue-squeaking1 -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 76 – 82 ; Voice And Layer: 4(default) ] – severe
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__OpenTip0–Vel-80–issue-squeaking2 -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 76 – 82 ; Voice And Layer: 4(default) ] – medium
–Hihat-Mantra__OpenTip0–Vel-80-Sequence-16Strokes -> [ squeaking: you’ll find out which strokes are the buggy samples ]
—
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__OpenTip0–Vel-118–issue-muffledPlock -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 112 – 118 ; Voice And Layer: 5 – (-) ] – minor
—
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__PedalChick–Vel-55–issue-noise -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 50 – 59 ; Voice And Layer: 4(default) ] – severe
–Hihat-Mantra__Pedal–Vel-55-Sequence-16Strokes -> [ noise – you’ll find out which strokes are the buggy samples ]
—
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__PedalChick–Vel-72–issue-repeatingNoiseA -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 68 – 75 ; Voice And Layer: 4(default) ] – medium
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__PedalChick–Vel-72–issue-repeatingNoiseB -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 68 – 75 ; Voice And Layer: 4(default) ] – minor
–Hihat-Mantra__Pedal–Vel-72-Sequence-8Strokes -> [ repeating noise – you’ll find out which strokes are the buggy samples ]
—
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__PedalChick–Vel-115–issue-clickingNoise -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 85 – 127 ; Voice And Layer: 4(default) ] – medium
–Hihat-Mantra__SingleSample__PedalChick–Vel-115–issue-repeatingNoise -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 85 – 127 ; Voice And Layer: 4(default) ] – medium
–Hihat-Mantra__Pedal–Vel-115-Sequence-8Strokes -> [ clickingNoise + repeating noise – you’ll find out which strokes are the buggy samples ]
—
—
–Ride-AgopXistBrilliant21__SingleSample__BowTip2–Vel-73–issue-weirdTones -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 69 – 74 ; Voice And Layer: 3(default) ] – severe
–Ride-AgopXistBrilliant21__SingleSample__BowTip2–Vel-80–issue-digCracking-after3point5Seconds -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 75 – 81 ; Voice And Layer: 3(default) ] – severe
–Ride-AgopXistBrilliant21__SingleSample__BowTip2–Vel-80–issue-digCracking-after1point5Seconds -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 75 – 81 ; Voice And Layer: 3(default) ] – severe
–Ride-AgopXistBrilliant21__SingleSample__BowTip2–Vel-80–issue-digHiss-after6Seconds -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 75 – 81 ; Voice And Layer: 3(default) ] – severe
—
—
–Kick-Sonorlite17x22__SingleSample__Open–Vel-50—-issue-noisyDoubleHit -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 44 – 55 ; Voice And Layer: 4(default) ] – severe
–Kick-Sonorlite17x22__SingleSample__Open–AmpRibbon-muted–Vel-50–issue-noisyDoubleHit -> [ Occurance/Range: vel 44 – 55 ; Voice And Layer: 4(default) ] – severe
1
Thanked by: Mac McCormickMintberryCrunchaaaaaand here it is again:
after research of (only!) 4 (!) articulations: around 20 buggy samples (most on hihat) detected:
“Fields Of Rock – Stone” :
password: Toontrack-SD3-Forum
I could puke when first trying some new SDX sound on e-drums – and after some beats they are there again: THE BUGGY SAMPLES! Because the makers of these libs don’t want to QC – it’s obviously too much work for these few e-drummers who have a problem with it.
Wow, found 20 today (most on a single hihat articulation which is relevant for closed loose hihat and also some on a single ride bow articulation) : at least around 10 of them are total no-gos to me.
MintberryCrunchaaaaaand here we go again:
again at least 1 buggy sample (on the same hihat model) detected:
“Fields Of Rock – Stone” :
15″ Istanbul Agop Mantra -Hi-Hat- “Open Tip 0” articulation – [default “Hit Variation” setting occurrence: vel 119 – 126 ; “Voice and Layer” setting: 6 – 12 (or “-“) (instead of 4 by default)]
issue/noise: clicky noise – sounds like digital clipping glitch
—
file: (vel 121 hit – sound+mic channels DEFAULT (no FX))
FOR-Stone–15IstanbulAgopMantra–SampleNo1–BUGGY-OpenTip0-Sample_MidiVel-121
Download-LINK
password: Toontrack-SD3-Forum
…
I’ve found this second one which sounds ok via low/mediocre quality monitors but when monitoring through my high end headphones gear chain I have the impression that there is also this kind of digital clicking (however, far more difficult to detect – the first one (“SampleNo1”) is super no-go on standalone e-drum sound -> you think there are audio driver glitches -> super annoying — Hey Toontrack, do you have any QC? After the tenth sample on one hihat model do I get some wages (cause I’m doing QC for you)?
file: (vel 121 hit – sound+mic channels DEFAULT (no FX))
FOR-Stone–15IstanbulAgopMantra–SampleNo2–OpenTip0-Sample_MidiVel-121
Download-LINK
password: Toontrack-SD3-Forum
MintberryCrunch(…maybe to be continued because I’m pretty sure there will be further ones…)
Of course I was right LOL. Here we go again:
again 1 buggy sample detected:
“Fields Of Rock – Stone” :
15″ Istanbul Agop Mantra -Hi-Hat- “Pedal Closed” articulation – [default “Hit Variation” setting occurrence: vel 66 – 89 ; without “Use Adjacent Layers”: vel 78 – 89]
issue/noise: clicky noise
—
file: (vel 84 hit – sound+mic channels DEFAULT (no FX))
FOR-Stone–15IstanbulAgopMantra–BUGGY_PedalChickSample_MidiVel-84
Download-LINK
password: Toontrack-SD3-Forum
MintberryCrunchI’m not sure you will get it as low as 1/2ms. Anything under 10ms should be ok though.
It won’t be at 1/2ms. I would say total VSTi drumming latency should be under 10ms (at least module/trigger device latency has to be added to the audio stream out latency). 10ms ASIO out will be around 13 – 15 ms using Roland modules and much more with an Alesis Strike. So it’s no-go. I would definitely use a super fast ASIO device when using a quite slow module like the Alesis.
MintberryCrunchThank you for your reply – I have joined the forum which looks very helpful! What exactly is “Double Bassdrum Sound”? Is it an add-on for ezdrummer? I have searched and can’t find anything with this name specifically including on the FB page.
“Double Bassdrum Sound” is a setup with two slightly different kick sounds in order to sound authentically and not kind of machine gunning. Works with any EZX (/SDX) so it needn’t be a Metal one with two onboard kicks.
1
Thanked by: LangdrumNo products in the cart.
