Volume automation or midi velocity?

[hko]

Hi,

would there be some benefits in manipulating the midi velocity rather than doing volume automation in the DAW for drum tracks? I assume that manipulating the midi velocity would actually trigger a different sample being played back by SD.

It is quite tedious to manipulate each midi clip on its own, any hints on how to increase the velocity of a number of clips in a handy/consistent way.

rgds

Harri

Topic

[Jessica Lehto]

As you write… Altering the velocity triggers a different sample and will change the sound a bit. Just use the velocity when you want to change how the drums are played. When you have found what you are looking for then use volume automation to match the volume of the drums with the rest of the music.

I have actually never tried to change velocity of several different clips at once so I wouldn’t know how

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[jbraner]

What host are you using? Changing velocities on notes is pretty easy in SONAR – and I’m sure you can do it on most other hosts.

In SONAR you can pick just one or two notes to change, or you can pick groups based on velocities, lengths, what beat they’re on etc (IOW just about any combination of notes).

You definitely want to change the MIDI velocities on the notes themselves.

John Braner
http://johnbraner.bandcamp.com
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
and all the major streaming/download sites.
-------------------------------------------------
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[hko]

I am using Cubase 5 Essentials.

Googled this and I think I found a good solution. I should be able to use automation to also to control the velocites in the drum track without having to modify each clip separately in the Midi edit view. I think that the good thing about this approach is that the original relative velocities remain intact.

[Juicy]

There are times when midi velocity is best and times when volume via automation is best,automation of volume in your daw is more akin to balancing and mixing , midi velocity is more akin to what a real drummer is doing like how soft of loud the drum is being hit.
By all means both do crossover but are entirely different.
If using the internal midi loops you can use the velocity knob to make down or up adjustments of midi velocity on a whole midi file before you D&Drop the loop,for example you could take the same 2 bar loop 4 times and try adjusting it way down and then up a bit and up a bit for next so on back to the normal setting each time you drag it and you find you have a build that works over 8 bars.This is seperate to what an engineer can do with the volume fader to set the perfect level for a sound or boosting a certain section .If you just had your drum at one static velocity level and only adjust the fader you are going back closer to the old robotic drum machines days with no real timbre change at all.When a drum is whacked really hard it doesnt sound the same at all to a mid hit or soft hit but the difference is not only volume but tonal.

[jbraner]

I should be able to use automation to also to control the velocites in the drum track

I don’t know if this actually changes the MIDI velocities, or just adjusts the volume of the Superior (or EZDrummer) playback – but juicy is 100% right.

It’s well worth the effort adjusting the velocity levels of the MIDI notes themselves. The more meticulous you get – the better your drums are going to sound

John Braner
http://johnbraner.bandcamp.com
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
and all the major streaming/download sites.
-------------------------------------------------
Reaper 7 x64 (latest version), Windows 11 Pro 64 bit, AMD Ryzen 3950x, 32GB RAM, MSI MAG X570 Tomahawk Wifi mobo (not using wifi though), NVIDIA GEForce GT710 video card, MOTU Ultralite AVB audio interface

[Jessica Lehto]

That’s correct. You cannot use automations on the audio output of Superiorto change the velocity. Automations change volume. If you want to change velocity then you will need to enter the pianoroll or just highlight the midiclip and search for the “velocity” function under the MIDI tab in the toolbar.

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[hko]

ORIGINAL: on_most_surfaces

That’s correct. You cannot use automations on the audio output of Superiorto change the velocity. Automations change volume. If you want to change velocity then you will need to enter the pianoroll or just highlight the midiclip and search for the “velocity” function under the MIDI tab in the toolbar.

Are you sure that the velocity automation available in Cubase would not in fact change the velocity of the midiclips, at least that is what it seems to do? My assumption is that the velocity automation reduces or increases the velocity values of all the hits in the midiclip proportionally – the actual velocity values of the clip are not touched but the DAW subtracts from or adds to the velocity values based on what is entered in the automation.

If it works like I assume, then I think this would be a good way to adjust the general feel and intensity of the drumtrack (together with volume automation). Naturally, some individual clip level adjustments could still be used to enhance fills or reduce disturbing elements.

[Scott]

ORIGINAL: hko

ORIGINAL: on_most_surfaces

That’s correct. You cannot use automations on the audio output of Superiorto change the velocity. Automations change volume. If you want to change velocity then you will need to enter the pianoroll or just highlight the midiclip and search for the “velocity” function under the MIDI tab in the toolbar.

Are you sure that the velocity automation available in Cubase would not in fact change the velocity of the midiclips, at least that is what it seems to do? My assumption is that the velocity automation reduces or increases the velocity values of all the hits in the midiclip proportionally – the actual velocity values of the clip are not touched but the DAW subtracts from or adds to the velocity values based on what is entered in the automation.

If it works like I assume, then I think this would be a good way to adjust the general feel and intensity of the drumtrack (together with volume automation). Naturally, some individual clip level adjustments could still be used to enhance fills or reduce disturbing elements.

It sounds like on_the_surface is talking about the automation for the VSTi audio channels and not the MIDI channel automation.

Changing/automating the audio channel fader will not adjust the velocity. It will take the velocity that is present and make it louder or softer. Changing/automating the MIDI channel fader will change the velocity.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Jessica Lehto]

Thanks for clarifying that Scott. I was indeed talking about the VSTi audio channel and not the midi channel. I actually didn’t know that the midi channels have automation options too 

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[Bernd Rösler]

Hi,
i’ve created a song using the funkmaster expansion with different loops
from the Jabo and Clyde Kit. The whole Drums played with the Clyde Kit
an now I habe the problem, that the loops from Jabo are much qieter
than the loops from Clyde Kit. So at the change of the loops you will hear
the loops gettin qieter. I want to create Audiofiles with Multiexport
in Cubase but I don’t want to do it twice for both Kits.
Any ideas?

Regards
downtown

[Through These Gates]

so when going through drums say with a drum roll in black metal the snare will have 4 notes and 2 toms will have 4 notes how would you adjust the velocity to simulate a real drummer? I know where the velocity button is but each note how to you know what to adjust the velocity too?

[mikeconde]

Hi all… Mike here .im new…. on your issue regarding automating midi velocity. Know how to use the velocity control in the mapping window of sd2? basically it acts as a compressor and or gate on velocity notes in sd/your host …i think that will solve your issue.. hope this helps.

in cubase essentuial 5, has anyone had any luck automating the sd2 submixer? i want o be able to automate values in the room channels of sd2..(lowering and raising the cymbal volume in a given room mics bleed..

Mike

[megapeng]

sadly there is no automation for the build in superior mixer (it is a request of mine as well) as the build in mixer is good enough ther would be no need to route audio out separately.

in your case this means route your desired channels (rooms / oh) to diferrent tracks in your daw and automate the volume there.

cheers
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[mikeconde]

Thanx Mega, i was afraid of that ..oh well sd will have to upgrade sometime so hopefully they can add that

[voodime]

Ok……………i got a similar issue and im gonna give it a chop on here

the Humanize feature works great in ez drummer for all the pre made drum loops all the velocites are all random and the pre made drum loops when played sound pretty much like a real drummer playing

my issue

is that i make all my own drum samples / loops and i would love to be able to use the humanize feature on all my own drum samples / loops so it sounds real but i got to set the velocity for each midi note because the default velocity on my program is set at 64 for each midi note used ………….so what i basically just want is to not have to set every midi note its velocity but just to be able to use the humanize feature for my own drum loops so its sounds as good as the pre set drum loops

cheers

[Author]

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