Superior Drummer Questions

[Matthew Kudirka]

Im trying to set up this kit which will be played on a Roland TD15 kit. Im using the Avatar library and Roots Sticks.

1. Im trying to use the 13″ Hi hat from Avatar with the Roots kit. I have it set up as an xDrum, but I can’t get it to function correctly. I set the Roots hi hat to NONE and set up my VH11 with the xdrum hats. Select the same preset ‘More Close” and I get nothing. It’s making me learn each position on the hats which sort of works but not very well. My work around right now is that I’ve just brought all the Roots drums into the Avatar kit as xdrums and surrounded the 13″ avatar hats with all the Roots drums. this does work but its messy and a PIA and taking up alot of RAM. Any way to have the xdrum hi hat use the same presets? I hope I worded this question right.

2. The crash cymbals in Roots have many more articulations than Avatar. I like to set Ride Tip(even tho it’s a crash) to the bow and Edge/Crash to the edge trigger. Not a problem with the Roots cymbals but not an option with Avatar cymbals. I only get Crash, Mute, and Mute tail as an articulation. Im looking at purchasing another SDX or EDX but would like to know what the articulations are before purchasing. it’s not on the site at all and I can’t find any documentation. Is this info documented anywhere.

I asked this in another edrum forum and I the only advice was to switch to BFD3, LOL. I don’t want to do that. loving SD2.

Topic

[John]

Hi,

to answer your first question, I’d simply load the Roots kit I am going to use, go to the Mapping page and load the ‘E-drums Roland’ MIDI Preset.
Then add the X-drum hi-hat and on the MIDI drop-down in the X-drum Edit ‘Steal Current’.
Then your E-drums should be pretty much set up. You don’t Learn each and every articulation, doesn’t work that way. You only trigger the ‘Trig’ articulations from your kit, then the CC data and the Transmutation takes care of the different open stages of the hi-hat.

I have to get back to you regarding the second question. As you wrote, the articulations aren’t listed on the product pages, so I’l simply have to go through the different SDX’s to see which Crash Cymbals have several articulations. Don’t think it’s that many.

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Matthew Kudirka]

Thanks, That got me a little closer maybe. But it’s not the same. When I play the 13″ hats in avatar, almost all articulations are accounted for and playable. When I xdrum it into Roots sticks, it’s loosing more than half of the articulation. It goes from “tight tip” to “open2″( this is wide open.)only on the bell trig. Edge trig has all. “Tight close” to “open5” working thru all 1open-4open and its smooth.

I’ve tried steal current, steal default. I’ve seen a few threads that say to learn “hat trig” that did random things. I’m thinking I just need to xdrum the Roots drums into Avatar for use with the hi hats. That does work. I Didn’t want to do this because of the decca tree, but the hats in roots are not as smooth. Maybe that’s what I should be asking. The hats in roots… When I play fast eigth notes with it slightly open, it’s like the hats are getting cut off in mid play. I’ve messed with them, and couldn’t get them right(admittedly not more than an hour messing with it) so I moved onto what just worked, which was avatars hats.

Any advice is much appreciated.

[John]

To get back on your 2nd question in your 1st post:
Music City has got 3 articulations (besides Mute) on the Crash Cymbals – Crash, Ride & Bell
other than that there is only the Roots SDX:s that are sampled with several articulations on the Crash Cymbals. The Ride Cymbals are in general sampled with 3-5 articulations.

When you write

When I xdrum it into Roots sticks, it’s loosing more than half of the articulation.

Is that what you experience in the response when you are playing or are you meaning something else?
Could you provide me with a Project where you have tried to set things up as you want them?

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Matthew Kudirka]

@John said:

To get back on your 2nd question in your 1st post:
Music City has got 3 articulations (besides Mute) on the Crash Cymbals – Crash, Ride & Bell
other than that there is only the Roots SDX:s that are sampled with several articulations on the Crash Cymbals. The Ride Cymbals are in general sampled with 3-5 articulations.

When you write When I xdrum it into Roots sticks, it’s loosing more than half of the articulation.
Is that what you experience in the response when you are playing or are you meaning something else?
Could you provide me with a Project where you have tried to set things up as you want them?

awesome sounds like Music City is what Im looking for. thanks for that info.

as for my original question….I dont have a project saved. I just set it up each time because there’s no point saving the poor playing HH. Ilike to start from scratch each time. It doesnt take me long to get everything set up. And yes when I play it Im only getting those articulations. In the Roots Kit, If I goto the Mapping tab, I hit the bell of the HH with my foot on the pedal and I get “Tight Tip”(which is what I want) I open it up slightly and hit the HH and Im getting “Open2”. I’d like “Open1” but whatever open2 is fine. and then from there no matter how much more I open the HH it’s stays on “Open2″ even fully opened. The Edge trigger is going thru full articulation. That is working fine. Again, this is when I xDrum the 13″Avatar HH into the Roots kit. If I xDrum all the Roots drums into the Avatar kit, the 13” Avatar HH plays exactly how I want it.

sorry for repeating myself. Im really new to VSTs. My end goal is to get these working in Reaper, but currently Im just trying to get it right in Toontrack solo first. Im so close, I know HH’s are a pain for most. Maybe the Avatar Hats just wont work within the Roots kit. If that’s the case, then I’ll stop trying and make due with the Roots Hats until I can pick up Music City.

[John]

Hi,
I will have to check for myself with my E-drums kit before I get back to you on this.
Just to make sure, which version number is reported in the Superior 2 plugin interface?

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Matthew Kudirka]

I’m using version 2.4.2. John do you have Roots? I don’t think hi hats can switch between SDXs. At least not these 2. I can get the hats working perfect within their own SDX on toontrack solo, and in reaper. So I have to think I know what I’m doing. It’s actually very easy to get the hats working properly. But I cannot get this working.

So now, is there a way to get the hats in roots to not cut off when playing fast half open. I’m playing eigth notes at about 170 bpm. Nothing crazy. If I play them tight and hitting hihat kicks and stuff, they’re awesome. very dynamic, and smooth. But if I try to ride them half open, they cut out all over the place. Maybe I’m just expecting too much. That’s possible lol.

I’m hooked on VSTs tho. Im glad I chose SD2. Loving it. I hope I don’t come across as complaining too much. Just trying to figure it out and what the limitations are. And if there is a work around please let me know.

[John]

Hi,

you should of course be able to import hi-hats as X-drums between SDX:s.
I have still not had the opportunity to sit down with my kit but I made an 8-note-ish type of pattern @170bpm in Logic with the Open 2 articulation and played it back with the 2 hi-hats from the Avatar and Roots as you have described. What I noticed is that they have a slightly different dynamic behavior. It sounded like soft(er) notes clearly audible with the Avatar HH, got a bit lost with the Roots HH. Playing with the Velocity curve on the Open 2 articulation (on the Mapping page) brought them back.
Also, you might want to increase the voice limit for the HH in general if you have a lot of open hits @ high tempos. ‘-‘ is unlimited.
As a Tip; if you do anything with the ‘MHE’ knob, be sure to have the ‘Edit articulation only’ button lit, since you most likely wouldn’t want the same setting for all articulations.

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Matthew Kudirka]

thanks for your help John. Im just going to use the Roots hats for now. I have them dialed in. I adjusted my playing/part a bit. I actually like the sound of the hats better in Roots, it’s just the issue described above. I dont think these hats were intended to be played on the more rock n roll side of the spectrum. Once I learn how to edit midi, maybe I can get it how I want it in there(it still sounds great). If you figure out a way to get the Avatar hats working in Roots(while being played on edrums with full articulation please post your solution) no worries. But I don’t think it can be done without an update.

with the exception of this little issue, this is so much easier than recording an acoustic kit. So much better.

again, thanks for getting back to me.

[Matthew Kudirka]

Just an update if anyone else has the issue with samples cutting out on a vh 11. I recalibrated my VH11. On a TD15 it is important to go into the HiHat settings, and when your in the screen with the veritcal graph, with the hi hat clutch disengaged, so the vh11 is resting on the sensor, you then need to turn the ‘Offset Adjustment” Screw until the two arrows turn black(I opened mine all the way up then turned it clockwise until the arrows filled in black). I don’t know why the hi hat played fine with some Samples and internal sounds and not others, but this really made the hi play much better with the Roots. It actaully plays better with all of them. Im guessing the Roots samples have more articulations so a vh11 in need of calibration can bring out more flaws. Anyways, it’s playing great now.

[Author]

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