Many questions about EZ Drummer 2 – confused!

[Tim Zurowski]

TOPIC CLOSEDFirst I will start by saying that EZ Drummer...

TOPIC CLOSED

First I will start by saying that EZ Drummer 2 is my first experience with VSTi and any drum software. I do however have many years experience in studio and computer recording. So I hope you guys don’t mind my initial questions and comments.

1) The whole purchase and download process was extremely confusing and very difficult to work through. I purchased from Kelly’s Computers in Canada and they told me to create an account at Toontrack and it would guide me to the download for EZ Drummer 2 (ED2). Well it did not. After much frustration, I eventually looked in My Account (which took me a long time to figure out) and it listed only one product available with the product key Kelly’s gave me. Well that product download was for EZ Drummer (not 2). I had no idea it was not ED2 and installed it. I could not find it in my host software (Samplitude ProX) and no way of knowing that it was not ED2. So I then looked back in my Toontrack account and saw that it now listed three products for me available to download, of which one was ED2 Upgrade. I had no idea that the purchase of ED2 was an upgrade purchase and that ED was required first. I was led to believe that I was purchasing a new stand alone product ED2 and that ED would never be involved. So I uninstalled ED and reinstalled ED2, which seemed to work. This whole process was a nightmare for me and had me wishing I never purchased. It definitely needs to be simplified with much clearer and complete instructions!

2) Next was the install process. They say you can set where you want the drum samples stored, and it did come up with that option during the install process. However, it was not clear about how to select which of the three choices at install first. So I chose the first option for installation of the program expecting that I would have the option to go back and install the samples where I wanted. Well that does not work. The install process is very unclear as to what you do with those first three install choices. There needs to be a very clear and defined process for those three choices. As it is I have no idea where the samples were stored and no idea how to move them to my larger drives where I keep all my samples.

3) In my Account it lists three products for me. One being ED, which I did not purchase and says “update available” and “authorized”. Next it lists ED2 which just says “unauthorized”. I have no idea why it says “unauthorized” as it is installed and working on my system? What do I have to do to authorize ED2 and why do I have to authorize it? I paid for ED2, not ED, yet I was given product keys for both of them. Very confusing this is?? Next there is a product called Pop/Rock EZX. No explanation what it is or what to do with it, but I downloaded it anyway and tried to install it. it only gave me the option to install it is in the Win 7 32 bit folder and I am using and want everything as 64 bit. What is this product and why can’t it install as a 64 bit app?

4) Now some comments about ED2. I know you guys probably love this product, but for me as a new user, I have to say I was expecting A LOT MORE! I will say the drum and percussion samples are excellent, but it stops there for me. All the drum patterns, loops and grooves are way too basic and simple. Basically they all sound like any drum machine patterns. I was expecting and hoping for way more intricate, detailed and technically talented drummer grooves. I thought the idea was to have the worlds greatest drummers at your fingertips. You know stuff like Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colaiuta, Steve Gadd, Terry Bozzio, etc. etc. etc. would do when playing their best. Why do they advertise that they use these great drummers for the program and then just give you simple grooves and patterns. I am used to recording real drummers and am not really expecting to have to do many hours of mid drum manipulation to make the grooves and patterns more intricate for what I want to do. So how do I get better grooves and patterns? Do I have to now pay big bucks to get midi patterns of that quality? If so, where are they and how to I sample them to know what I am getting?

5) Now the expansion kits and midi kits. Do the Sample expansion kits include midi patterns and if so is there any way to hear them before you purchase. Or at least get a written description or list of what they are and how intricate they are? Where are the brushes? I thought there was a brushes kit? I would like a jazz kit that includes as many brush grooves and patterns as possible. My style is mostly jazz fusion with a lot of funk and some rock and blues. What would you guys say are the must have kits for these genres?

Lastly, I could not find a more appropriate forum here for this post. If there is a better place to post this please let me know or move it there.

Much appreciated
Tim

TOPIC CLOSED

First I will start by saying that EZ Drummer 2 is my first experience with VSTi and any drum software. I do however have many years experience in studio and computer recording. So I hope you guys don’t mind my initial questions and comments.

1) The whole purchase and download process was extremely confusing and very difficult to work through. I purchased from Kelly’s Computers in Canada and they told me to create an account at Toontrack and it would guide me to the download for EZ Drummer 2 (ED2). Well it did not. After much frustration, I eventually looked in My Account (which took me a long time to figure out) and it listed only one product available with the product key Kelly’s gave me. Well that product download was for EZ Drummer (not 2). I had no idea it was not ED2 and installed it. I could not find it in my host software (Samplitude ProX) and no way of knowing that it was not ED2. So I then looked back in my Toontrack account and saw that it now listed three products for me available to download, of which one was ED2 Upgrade. I had no idea that the purchase of ED2 was an upgrade purchase and that ED was required first. I was led to believe that I was purchasing a new stand alone product ED2 and that ED would never be involved. So I uninstalled ED and reinstalled ED2, which seemed to work. This whole process was a nightmare for me and had me wishing I never purchased. It definitely needs to be simplified with much clearer and complete instructions!

2) Next was the install process. They say you can set where you want the drum samples stored, and it did come up with that option during the install process. However, it was not clear about how to select which of the three choices at install first. So I chose the first option for installation of the program expecting that I would have the option to go back and install the samples where I wanted. Well that does not work. The install process is very unclear as to what you do with those first three install choices. There needs to be a very clear and defined process for those three choices. As it is I have no idea where the samples were stored and no idea how to move them to my larger drives where I keep all my samples.

3) In my Account it lists three products for me. One being ED, which I did not purchase and says “update available” and “authorized”. Next it lists ED2 which just says “unauthorized”. I have no idea why it says “unauthorized” as it is installed and working on my system? What do I have to do to authorize ED2 and why do I have to authorize it? I paid for ED2, not ED, yet I was given product keys for both of them. Very confusing this is?? Next there is a product called Pop/Rock EZX. No explanation what it is or what to do with it, but I downloaded it anyway and tried to install it. it only gave me the option to install it is in the Win 7 32 bit folder and I am using and want everything as 64 bit. What is this product and why can’t it install as a 64 bit app?

4) Now some comments about ED2. I know you guys probably love this product, but for me as a new user, I have to say I was expecting A LOT MORE! I will say the drum and percussion samples are excellent, but it stops there for me. All the drum patterns, loops and grooves are way too basic and simple. Basically they all sound like any drum machine patterns. I was expecting and hoping for way more intricate, detailed and technically talented drummer grooves. I thought the idea was to have the worlds greatest drummers at your fingertips. You know stuff like Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colaiuta, Steve Gadd, Terry Bozzio, etc. etc. etc. would do when playing their best. Why do they advertise that they use these great drummers for the program and then just give you simple grooves and patterns. I am used to recording real drummers and am not really expecting to have to do many hours of mid drum manipulation to make the grooves and patterns more intricate for what I want to do. So how do I get better grooves and patterns? Do I have to now pay big bucks to get midi patterns of that quality? If so, where are they and how to I sample them to know what I am getting?

5) Now the expansion kits and midi kits. Do the Sample expansion kits include midi patterns and if so is there any way to hear them before you purchase. Or at least get a written description or list of what they are and how intricate they are? Where are the brushes? I thought there was a brushes kit? I would like a jazz kit that includes as many brush grooves and patterns as possible. My style is mostly jazz fusion with a lot of funk and some rock and blues. What would you guys say are the must have kits for these genres?

Lastly, I could not find a more appropriate forum here for this post. If there is a better place to post this please let me know or move it there.

Much appreciated
Tim

Topic

[Erik Phersson]

Tim, check this: http://www.toontrack.com/forum/requests-and-feedback/im-sorry-but-what-is-going-on-here/#p141736

Erik Phersson - Toontrack
Head Of Development

[Nutbag01]

Tim…..you’ll have to delve a little deeper in to the midi.Yes it is designed mainly for rock/pop/metal but the midi can be added or subtracted.There are tons of videos on Youtube showing how to get very complex drum rhythms…but you have to look for them and then watch them(yep,sorry,it’s gonna take some work).Toontrack never said they were going to give you a thousand full recordings of a jazz drummer jamming out for several minutes.They give you the basics to start creating complex drum patterns.Watch the EZdrummer2 videos recently posted on youtube(by toontrack)and you will see some of the things you CAN do,very easily to make great drum patterns.As for your complaints about buying EZdrummer1 and thinking it was EZdrummer2….EZD2 is an upgrade,always was an upgrade and was never publicized to be anything else.Maybe you should buy your music at another store?(or done a little research).As for installation…..download…..unzip….install….authorize….done.Most computers I have worked on with a DAW(or even stand alone like EZD2)will automatically chose the correct VST/plugin path.I think you made it too complicated for yourself.It took me a while to realize this when I was a novice at using computer based recording software.Anyways,good luck and I hope you give it a chance,it is an amazing product with pretty amazing sounding drums(and with individual outputs and the addition of effects,sounds are endless).

[Tim Zurowski]

@Nutbag01 said:

Tim…..you’ll have to delve a little deeper in to the midi.Yes it is designed mainly for rock/pop/metal but the midi can be added or subtracted.There are tons of videos on Youtube showing how to get very complex drum rhythms…but you have to look for them and then watch them(yep,sorry,it’s gonna take some work).Toontrack never said they were going to give you a thousand full recordings of a jazz drummer jamming out for several minutes.They give you the basics to start creating complex drum patterns.Watch the EZdrummer2 videos recently posted on youtube(by toontrack)and you will see some of the things you CAN do,very easily to make great drum patterns.As for your complaints about buying EZdrummer1 and thinking it was EZdrummer2….EZD2 is an upgrade,always was an upgrade and was never publicized to be anything else.Maybe you should buy your music at another store?(or done a little research).As for installation…..download…..unzip….install….authorize….done.Most computers I have worked on with a DAW(or even stand alone like EZD2)will automatically chose the correct VST/plugin path.I think you made it too complicated for yourself.It took me a while to realize this when I was a novice at using computer based recording software.Anyways,good luck and I hope you give it a chance,it is an amazing product with pretty amazing sounding drums(and with individual outputs and the addition of effects,sounds are endless).

First, I am NOT a novice. I have probably been at this stuff 10 times longer than you have. This was not user error! These issues were real. None of the things happened the way you suggest they should. Second, I have watched ALL the YouTube videos before I purchased and my understanding was obviously different than yours. I suspect you do not play or record “fusion” music and have no idea what it is nor what would be required to manipulate these samples to work for some styles. It would literally take me 50 times longer than just getting a drummer in and record is in audio, which is what I have been doing since the 70’s. I am not a drummer and was hoping that this drum software would be a good drummer. Yes, I am a novice with VSTi drum software, which is why there should be a demo available for people like me. Anyway, not a big deal . . . . . $149 is not going to break the bank to find out that this way of recording is not for me. If I had a drummer with a good electronic kit, I could do it that way, but I am not going to pay thousands to go that route. You simply do not understand the undertaking this would be. Besides, I am not at all into spending dozens of hours manipulating simple drum grooves to fit. I would be okay with minor manipulation, but not the amount it is going to take. Just to give you a basic idea of what I am talking about, here is a song we recorded back around 2000. https://soundcloud.com/zuropak/keyhole Do you think you could take the samples in EZD2 and rearrange them to do something like this? If yes, then you are a God

[Whitten]

@Nutbag01 said:
.EZD2 is an upgrade,always was an upgrade and was never publicized to be anything else.

That isn’t correct.
If you have never owned EZdrummer 1, then purchasing EZD2 is purchasing a new product.
I think a lot of people are buying EZdrummer 2 as a new product, their first Toontrack product.

[Whitten]

@Tim Zurowski said:

longer than just getting a drummer in and record is in audio, which is what I have been doing since the 70’s. I am not a drummer and was hoping that this drum software would be a good drummer.

Tim,
Fusion is a genre, it has nothing to do with simply being ‘a good drummer’.
Elvin Jones was ‘a good drummer’ and never played Fusion, likewise John Bonham.

Fusion is also a very niche genre. So it would be highly unlikely that a core drum library product, which is what EZdrummer 2 is, would feature multiple odd time signature grooves.
EZdrummer 2 is the product everyone needs to buy to be able to use all the EZdrummer expansions (EZX’s). Therefore it caters to the mainstream with many bread and butter rock and pop grooves, which is what the vast majority of people want. There are EZX’s to suit many different niche genres (Nashville, Roots, Vintage Rock, Metal etc).
There are hundreds of videos on Youtube explaining and demonstrating EZdrummer 1, and there were several videos and press releases explaining EZdrummer 2.
My first professional gig as a drummer was in a fusion band 1978/79.

[Tim Zurowski]

@Whitten said:

I think a lot of people are buying EZdrummer 2 as a new product, their first Toontrack product.

Which is exactly what I was told I was doing. Thus the confusion for me.

[Whitten]

Yeah, but there was information about the upgrade path from EZdrummer 1 to 2, and the store you bought EZdrummer 1/2 from did you a favour.
So you should be happy.

[Tim Zurowski]

@Whitten said:

Yeah, but there was information about the upgrade path from EZdrummer 1 to 2,.

Absolutely not true! There was no info whatsoever about this, which is why I was trying to contact and ask Toontrack. Do you think I would originally have bothered posting here if it was all straight forward there were no problems. I have downloaded and installed software by the hundreds, and I believe I can honestly say this was the most vague and confusing product I have ever purchased this way. Things are finally getting resolved, but no I am not happy. I could list dozens of things I find wrong with the whole procedure, the lack of info provided, these forums and the product, but as it is I am not happy with EZD2. Like I have already said I have accepted that I wasted my money and will move on. I honestly get that this is a great product for many people out there, but it is not what I was hoping for. I have also learned my lesson and will never purchase another product that does not offer a demo version prior to purchasing. I did download the Addictive Drums demo before going this route and for various reasons decided to go with EZD2. Thanks, but I’ll stick with real drummers and the occasional use of Drumagog.

[Whitten]

Actually, it was all over the internet.
March 13th:
http://www.kvraudio.com/news/toontrack-announces-ezdrummer-2-25308
March 12th:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/913786-messe-2014-toontrack-announces-ezdrummer-2-available-may-6th.html

March 18th:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AArgiZAC3IM
March 21st:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE3l04HfPsI
March 28th:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbr8PLg1Chk
April 16th:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfIudx0OTwQ
Authorization:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYsHY8NSg1c&list=UUQ-s4wVPNRZUzgAl87Fcq6w

EZdrummer 2 was announced on the 12th March, and for at least 6 weeks there was a page here explaining the upgrade procedure, there were also discussions on this forum (before it got buggy and difficult to access) and discussions about the upgrade offer and procedure on many other music related websites, plus informational and tutorial videos on Youtube.
I’m sorry, I find your blaming everything on Toontrack to be unreasonable and untrue.

Regarding your disappointment on the product… It seems your main issue is with the midi.
There are very affordable midi libraries available that are more Fusion oriented and that you can add to EZD2.
http://www.oddgrooves.com/progressive-drum-loops/
http://www.groovemonkee.com/collections/midi-loops/products/fusion-midi-drum-loops
http://www.platinumsamples.com/ps/PeterErskineGrooves.php
http://www.platinumsamples.com/ps/BrooksWackermanGrooves.php

[Jason Hood]

@Whitten said:
Actually, it was all over the internet…..

I’m sorry, I find your blaming everything on Toontrack to be unreasonable and untrue.

Why would he have researched upgrade paths prior to release when his aim was to purchase ED2. Vendor did him a solid, WTF, if you like that 90’s Counting Crows/Hootie/Spin Doctors drum sound (barf).
You admit forum got buggy, even appearing in Tims other thread about forum access. The guys clicking on midi packs and triggering sound files, and your getting all condescending “But if that isn’t obvious…. yes, all drum sample libraries have included midi grooves.”. “But in short, it’s user error on your part somewhere, not a dereliction of duty on Toontrack’s part.” after readily admitting you don’t view through a PC browser and the site has teething issues. Such an authoritive statement spoken like a true Zealot. (welcome to the site Timmy)
The site looks like its been put together by school kids, so I won’t say if the FAQ is enough for a noob to get by. Should he have read it more yes, would he have been able to get queries answered on the forum, probably not, should you save the lap dog attitude for a 3rd party site like gearwhores, absolutely.

[Erik Phersson]

Locking this thread now

Erik Phersson - Toontrack
Head Of Development

[Author]

Replies