Editor needed: the buggyness of samples is no longer acceptable to an e-drummer!

[MintberryCrunch]

Hey Toontrack,
please release a tool for SDX sample pool sample editing: the buggyness of YOUR samples has taken such dimensions that it is no longer acceptable to an e-drummer!

Today I’ve first played e-drums with SD3 (after quite a long time of using other drum samplers) and I’m using the newest lib “Fields Of Rock” (only one kit until now) – and what should I say -> it is just ridiculous: I’m sure there are tons of buggy samples in that library.

After hearing weird cracking, crackles, clicks and other noises on my headphones while playing I’ve spent nearly a whole day doing research on 4 articulations that I suspected to cause these glitches. [ LINK ] And what do you think, how many buggy samples did I find within these few articulations (especially hihat and ride)? And what do you think will happen when I load other (F.O.R.) kit piece models and doing research after again crackling my head off – how many shitty samples will I find? Hmm…

I mean there is no problem to get rid of low end noises on hihats/cymbals BUT especially cracking sounds and crackles and hiss is a total no-go (even when not very loud in the original state). Also, squeaking noises (some noises sometimes even remind me of strange wailing or dog barking or howling winds lol – I wonder why most samples sound ok and clean – and then I hear that weird sound) sometimes are absolutely no fun!

I cannot imagine you’ll get this right and clean: if you’re not doing QC when recording and producing the libraries it is IMO an impossibility to find all these hundreds (or even more) of buggy samples afterwards that hide somewhere in between.

So what do you say about a possibility for the user to clean up the sample pool? You are absolutely in dept here! (my money also wasn’t faulty, was it?)

And I’m sure this ‘buggy samples thing’ won’t find an end. IMO it is far away from a professional and “SUPERIOR” demand ;).

I know that this ‘buggy sample thing’ is not very relevant for your main target group of music producers / drum programmers – BUT it is super relevant for e-drummers!!! If you do not consent to releasing an editor for your sample pool black boxes you’ll have to announce an official warning to e-drummers: “buggy samples -which can spoil the e-drum fun – can be included.”

The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

Topic

[Scott]

Please contact Toontrack directly via the Contact Support button in the FAQ and report any and all sample issues you are having.

https://www.toontrack.com/faq/how-do-i-contact-support/

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[MintberryCrunch]

What will be the alternative to a user sample pool editor?

-> Telling the support exactly what samples the culprits are by naming them with all referring information (exact articulation/velocity/velocity range, ‘Voice And Layer’ setting)? Do you have an idea of how arduous it is to do reseach on buggy samples? (I mean finding meticulously out about these samples -which were only in less than a handful of articulations, btw- took me nearly a whole day of complex work!)

I can’t imagine that you would be happy if I told you every three days ‘hello support, hihat/cymbal/drum model ‘X’ produced some buggy noise today when I was e-drumming’. Do YOU want to do all the research? -> This I really cannot imagine. You would have to do research and fixes on samples for nearly every relevant articulation: and I’m sure this will be extremly much on SDXes like F.O.R.: a horrendous work with no end in sight on those tons of kit pieces/articulations/samples from these newer SDXes! And then?? Have to wait until you come up with a sample pool update some months/half a year later??

The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

[MintberryCrunch]

BTW, I really love the sounds from Fields Of Rock. It’s propably one of the greatest drum libs ever.

[-> I wish I could say this BUT when I check all these shitty noises that are spoiling the e-drum fun I’m super disappointed. I hardly dare to play around with especially all the hihat models the lib provides because I’m afraid that the disappointment will again be hard… -> Cannot belive that especially some of the greatest hihat and cymbal sounds (love the Agops!!! and bought the lib because of them in the first place) cause such problems on e-drums]

The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

• This post was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by MintberryCrunch.

[Damian Blunt]

Thanks for the feedback. We will check the issues you reported in the other thread and get a fix out as soon as possible.

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting

[MintberryCrunch]

The reported samples are only an example as I did research only on 2 of the Agop Mantra Hihat articulations and on 1 of the Xist Brilliant Ride. Also (other than the Hihat ‘Open Tip 0’ articulation), I’ve checked (and done research on) the Hihat ‘Pedal Closed’ articulation and the mentioned Ride articulation (‘Bow Tip 2’) only with default numbers of layers – so there are more!.

So I’m absoultely sure that it would be best if you quality-checked ALL Fields Of Rock samples again!* as I see from your answers that releasing an editor tool does not obtain your approval.

*…because as I already mentioned: what do you think will I find when loading other kit pieces / articulations / layers if you only fix my listed samples?

The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

[BlueMistral]

Relax dude, you’re coming across very rude, remember the way you ask is the way you receive…

[Mark King]

I don’t think he is being rude. Quality needs to be maintained and what he is asking is quite fair. If he has found dodgy samples in a small sample then there are bound to be more. There have always been a few that get through but this sounds like quite a lot so I agree that these should be looked at again.

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

1

Thanked by: MintberryCrunch

[BlueMistral]

there’s an update in the product manager, Fields of Rock it’s now 1.0.2, so maybe something has been fixed?

[MintberryCrunch]

BlueMistral wrote:

there’s an update in the product manager, Fields of Rock it’s now 1.0.2, so maybe something has been fixed?

No (at lest with the mentioned hihat and the ride samples): no changes.

The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

[MintberryCrunch]

Another example for the importance of a sample pool editor:

There are not only clearly “buggy” samples with digital clicking or other noises (which are definitely a producer error) BUT also samples which the user ( -> e-drummer) won’t like (in terms of character and sound colour -> dodgy / unsuitable / peculiar samples) and would want to get rid of! (I absolutely hate them disturbing the enjoyable sound from the good samples -> there is no chance to get rid of them with Toontrack sample pool black boxes and THIS is a super weak point of Superior Drummer. I mean if I look at other drum samplers (like the many Kontakt drum libs): I can edit the sample pool in Kontakt and in BFD2/3 as well.

 

If you don’t check these libraries for authentical behaviour/sound with e-drums there will always be somthing like this: * EXAMPLES

 

BTW, the “feels+sounds like squeaking” example happens at a super important sweet spot velocity range (around 100).
And the annyoing acute noise on open/semi open sounds happens on more than the shown sample/example.

 

After playing a little bit around with it it’s getting harder and harder for me to take a some SD3 libs/kit pieces seriously. And I’m absolutely shure that at least if you don’t check these libraries for authentical behaviour/sound with e-drums you won’t be able to resolve and handle this: if you had just fixed one dodgy sample a further one will be detected by the player. Also, sound is a matter of taste and of course the whole topic regarding acoustic drum and cymbal samples is kinda critical and you cannot tell and know what samples in a certain round-robin playing a user would like show up and what samples he would like to avoid. So I say it again!: The solution is very simple!: A sample pool editor is needed because this all is not acceptable to a demanding e-drummer and extremly lowers the quality of the supposed flagship sampler on VSTi-e-drumming!

 

* EXAMPLES:

 

F-O-R-Stone–Mantra Hihat-ClosedEdge -16th notes -feels+sounds like squeaking [ Occurance/Range: vel 94 – 101 ; Voice And Layer: default ]

–> 00:00 – 00:15 defauft preset without FX.

Download-LINK ( password: Toontrack-SD3-Forum )

 

——-

 

F-O-R-Stone–Mantra Hihat-opening process–OpenEdge2-annyoing acute noise [ Occurance/Range: vel 118 – 126 ; Voice And Layer: default ]

–> 00:00 – 00:15 defauft preset without FX.
–> 00:16 – 00:32 defauft preset with EQ (in order to emphasize the annoying frequencies) : HPF at 290Hz  ,  (left channel only): +7dB at 8600Hz.

Download-LINK ( password: Toontrack-SD3-Forum )

The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

[Mark King]

I think toontrack should ask for you to join the beta testing team as you are very thorough. I did it for a few years but it is time consuming.

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

1

Thanked by: MintberryCrunch

[Jason Smith]

Just got Fields of Rock, had it for two days. Today I discovered a sneeze on the Constantinople Ride on the Dry library when hitting the BOW SHANK articulation that I was triggering multiple times with just 9 layers per velocity range. Then tonight I came across a voice on the 16×24″ Kick on the Live library, somewhere in the mid to hard velocity.

Between Core, Legacy of Rock, Indiependent, and Progressive Foundry, I haven’t hear these kinds of noises… with Legacy an Core being the most used.

While the voice on the kick isn’t the worst, the sneeze is VERY disappointing. I’ve placed tickets for both.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sonoma (14)

[MintberryCrunch]

Jason Smith wrote:

…VERY disappointing…

Well, that’s just the way it is with the “superior” drum sampler: this buggy samples crap will always go on, after every sample pool update we will find more of these things (I’ve found so much more crap in the meantime, btw, but I’m not going to report it anymore: it’s so much work to identify and describe and post the exact samples -> I’m not their employee, and as we can see, it’s no good in the end, as more and more garbage samples keep popping up).
As long as Toontrack don’t care about e-drummers being able to fix the sample crap themselves (keyword sample pool editor), there will always be a flaw in the flagship drum sampler, which is really bad. Of course only relevant for e-drummers and not for the main target group (drum programmers / music producers) – so I have given up: no hope they will do anything about it.

The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

[Damian Blunt]

Jason Smith wrote:

Just got Fields of Rock, had it for two days. Today I discovered a sneeze on the Constantinople Ride on the Dry library when hitting the BOW SHANK articulation that I was triggering multiple times with just 9 layers per velocity range. Then tonight I came across a voice on the 16×24″ Kick on the Live library, somewhere in the mid to hard velocity.

Between Core, Legacy of Rock, Indiependent, and Progressive Foundry, I haven’t hear these kinds of noises… with Legacy an Core being the most used.

While the voice on the kick isn’t the worst, the sneeze is VERY disappointing. I’ve placed tickets for both.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sonoma (14)

Thanks for the report Jason. We have fixed and will get an update out as soon as possible.

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting

[Jason Smith]

Thank you Damian. I also just came across a distorted ride. However I was in the middle of something so I didn’t get a chance to write notes on it. I did change to another ride which resolved the issue. More to come.

Wish you’d offer some kind of voucher for all of the weirdness with this SDX.

I will say this, overall, it’s such a great sounding capture of these kits and the space. I truly enjoy playing this sdx on my V

e-drum setup. I wish there were more cymbal choices, however the cymbals recorded sound so damn good and balanced between bell and bow.

Anyway, I hope you all get the bugs ironed out on this one.

• This post was modified 1 year ago by Jason Smith.

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