1

[tooner10]

i humbly agree. i’m seeing a $199 upgrade price from SD2 which i own and $299 upgrade from EZD2 which i also already own???!!!! $200 is a lot to pay for resizable windows and improved midi functionality!!!! which i might add i already had in EZD2 for a couple of years now.

honestly the tons of other features of SD3 are not interesting to me (other than the two i listed above) at all and it feels to me like TT has lumped all this together to squeeze more cash from me when i’ve already essentially bought two programs from them that do these things separately. from my perspective, SD3 really puts to death SD2 and EZD2 as it marries both.

i think what i’m saying is there should be a *significantly* lower third upgrade price for users that own BOTH EZD2 AND SD2 not just one or the other! i feel like i’m getting squeezed at $199 for the SD2 upgrade!

[tooner10]

ok thanks as usual

[tooner10]

@John said:
Hi,

my first advice is to download the Product Manager. It sounds like you have made some manual customisations on your computer and to be able to help you, we need some kind of common ground to start from, so to speak.
The PM will not force you to download anything but it would be interesting to see what gets recognised and not.
Is EZdrummer reporting version 2.1.4 in the interface?
Did you manually add the paths to your EZX:s in Superior 2 or did it pick them up automatically?

BR,
John  

PM found three things to update. they all installed fine. the PM didn’t find the update that my online account told me to install b/c it was out of date a couple of days ago for the latin percussion (ie it thinks it is was already updated.. ie says “not download” but “installed”). so right now the PM tells me everything is up to date. yet if i go online to my account, it thinks that the three updates i just made in the PM are still out of date? i tried logging out and back in to make sure there was no race condition.

i don’t know. i guess my toontrack stuff is up to date. why the online and PM are out of sync i don’t know.

[tooner10]

@John said:
Well,

I’ll try my best to answer concisely and forgive me if I miss something.
If you use EZdrummer 2 and select an E-drums preset, the incoming MIDI from your kit gets transformed which means you can still audition grooves in the Browser and play your kit and both will play back as expected.
When you select an E-drums MIDI Preset in Superior 2, you change the instrument articulation’s actual MIDI note (HH is special with Trig notes). Try this with auditioning a groove (preferably with HH, Cymbals and Toms besides Kick and Snare) in the Browser first with Default mapping and then you switch to Alesis, Roland or Yamaha.
As you hear, it plays back differently.

So if you Learn the notes in Superior 2, the Toontrack MIDI and your own MIDI files recorded with a different mapping will not play back correctly.
Using a small MIDI keyboard with up/down octave buttons and a MOD wheel might prove the best solution, then you can jump down and use the Trig notes and MOD wheel to open and close the HH and mostly use the GM standard notes for the other drums and cymbals.

BR,
John  

i think we’re saying the same things. basically if a toontrack or non-toontrack midi file has coded an open HH 4 at GM note y, it expects the GM mapping to the kit piece articulation in SD to reflect that. if you start changing the SD mapping around so that open HH 3 gets routed to GM note z then all hell breaks loose. well unless of course i want to go and edit all the toontrack midi files and transpose the existing notes to reflect my new mapping. sound right? i think the only solution would be if i created some kind of real-time remapping in my daw that translates all toontrack midi notes on the fly at playback to whatever i decided (but that doesn’t change what’s coming directly from SD browser anyway) i wanted my new SD map to be. then any private midi files i created could use my own mapping directly. it sounds like a lot of trouble though and not worth the hassle.

any keyboard you’re recommend that fits the description you mentioned?

thx

[tooner10]

hey john. yeah i sort of ascertained that the midi root was set by teh first install of a given toontrack base product. then after that it’s fixed in an underlying config as EZHOME until you move the folder (whereupon it forces you to choose the new location) or you reinstall and reset it.

fwiw, i haven’t touched those midi files at all. i was just trying to figure out where they were on the system and once i found them wondered why toontrack used a different sorting mechanism than macos finder which made making a one to one comparison difficult. so regarding my other post, i’m not sure i did anything to the midi files that is messing with the install of the packages. i was basically poking around in my filesystem to check to see what midi files are actually there.

the install of these midi files has always been somewhat of a black box. at least for me. when you’re away from the toontrack products / daw for awhile and come back to resume and then update, i’ve always found it to be extremely confusing. the pkg names are often cryptic so you’re not really sure what you’re downloading. i never really know if i actually even have all the midi files that come with a given package installed or not. maybe with the new install manager it’s different but with the old online system, i *believe* the minute you downloaded the package toontrack assumed that the midi package was installed successfully which isn’t always true. i know that’s exactly what happened this time. having to always reinstall the full package after old interim updates get rolled into the full package periodically but also having interim package updates until that happens is sort of confusing. it would almost be better to only have one full install package and always keep that updated. just my two cents but maybe my assumptions are incorrect about how the packages are rolled out.

thx as usual for the info

[tooner10]

yeah you can do that. thx! i guess it doesn’t matter which one you use. i assumed one plugin flavor might be better or more efficient on a given platform otherwise why would they write two specs. i looked online and it appears that some AU plugins use a third party product (symbiosis?) to simply wrap the VST plugin which would seem to make the AU plugin more inefficient (an extra layer) vs rewriting the plugin to the new spec.

[tooner10]

@John said:
Hi,

when you’re in Superior 2, you can select the articulation that is triggered when you click the Snare Pad by either scrolling while hovering the mouse over the Snare or selecting articulation in the Instrument properties.
In EZdrummer 2, you have to expand the Instrument Properties Details tab to trigger other articulations. If you are mouse-click recording to a loop section on the Song Track, these articulations can also be recorded that way.

All Toontrack libraries follow a certain mapping scheme, yes, with a few exceptions like e.g. the Latin Percussion EZX, the Electronic EZX and the Dream Pop EZX.
All but the Latin Percussion EZX should work with the GM drum standard, though.
Remapping can not be done in EZdrummer 2 and I don’t recommend doing it in Superior 2 either, since it breaks the inter-library compatibility.
If you get a small controller for travelling, like e.g. the KORG nanoPAD2, you use its included Editor software to configure the pads’ mapping and you can save different scenes to jump between different pad configurations, e.g. Scene 1 has all drums you want to use laid out over the pads and Scene 2 all Hi-Hat articulations plus Cymbals you want to use.

BR,
John  

hey john i appreciate the thoughtful feedback. i’ve been diving into the SD manual and online videos and i’m starting to see the powerful articulation and mapping support so i think i’m on the right track. it’s just going to take some time to incorporate it into my workflow and muscle memory. thanks for the SD rollover tip to change the articulation. i didn’t see that anywhere! let me play around some more and see where i can get with this.

some followups to this reply though.

i explored the mapping feature in SD last night and i was really excited about it. it looks really easy to remap, save presets and more importantly go back to the toontrack / gm default at any time. the majority of toontrack libs i have are what i would consider “standard” per your description above. so *if* i did remap and the majority of the kits are all standardized to one GM map, the new remap should work with all the kits i have except the latin percussion, thus giving me perhaps an easier way to work with the tool. so how does this break the inter library compatability? i’m just trying to understand your suggestion better.

just so i’m clear (pardon i’m not a midi guy by trade but slowly getting there ;)), the articulations selected on a kit piece in EZD or SD never change the underlying midi files triggered in the SD grooves or EZD browser during *playback*. ie the midi notes in those files stay the same, it’s simply that EZD / SD somehow remaps what gets triggered by that note in real time (ie what you set that kit piece articulation to) right? this should hold true for any non-toontrack midi files that trigger using the same GM map as toontrack midi files yes?

so to follow, if i want any of my toontrack ezx / sd midi files or any of my own midi files / parts to use a variety of open hh 1, 2, 3, 4 and or vary the snare hit from center to edge or rimshot within a single 2-4 bar phrase (assuming those articulations and their underlying midi notes haveN’T been incorporated into the file itself), i have to edit the stock hh or snare in the underlying midi file taking the one snare / hh trigger note and moving it around to the other articulation notes throughout the passage to get what i want. which is to say using lots of articulations is really more of a daw edit thing then either an EZD / SD operation UNLESS as i stated the underlying midi file already contains those articulation midi notes in the first place. put another way, if the 4 bar midi pattern contains hh notes that always triggers hats closed tip , the only way you can get it to vary is to go edit the file in the daw and change some of those single hh midi notes to open 1, 3, and or closed tight edge etc (just an example). EZD / SD are pretty useless here except for the playback to trigger all the underlying pattern notes and of course to audition different articulations of a given kit piece in real-time to see what you might like vs what is actually contained in the pattern. make sense?

the only exception is IF i record directly to the song track in EZD browser (SD grooves is only playback so i have to drag midi to daw) which actually will record whatever articulation i have set in the kit construction to the song track midi file, which can then be dragged to daw or saved for future use (it doesn’t appear that you can move the details articulation window if it covers up the pattern in the song track though?). i think these are my options?

finally. i used to have a nanopad but no more. i’m thinking about going with a smaller more travel-sized velocity sensitive keyboard instead. would you recommend any that would give me the same level of velocity control as say the nano pad or the mpd216? i’m starting to think i don’t think the pads necessarily offer me much more control and could benefit from the keys as true keys. plus, it’s more of a one to one map to the piano roll in my daw which i’m probably going to be using fairly heavily

thx for all the input

[tooner10]

@John said:

VST is a platform independent standard developed by Steinberg.
AU is developed by Apple and only available on Mac OS.
You can manually remove the AU Components from ‘{Mac HD}/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/’, should you wish to, but there is no harm leaving them where they are and ignoring them in Studio One.
AU plugins are used by e.g. Logic and Garageband so if you delete them, they will not be available to hosts that use only AU plugins, unlike e.g. Studio One or Ableton Live that can use both.

BR,
John  

ok gotcha thx! so would the AU plugins actually work in S1 or cause it to crash (meaning it only supports VST)? if they don’t work in S1, presonus should remove the AU and only show the VST. for me it’s just a clutter thing not having all 4 displayed to me (2 EZD and 2 SD) every time i have to choose them b/c the VST / AU signature is very tiny on the intefface widget so it’s hard to make out which one i’m dragging. BUT i would prefer to have them installed in the event i do want to switch over to GB to bring in things done on my iphone on iOS GB.

[tooner10]

@John said:
Hi,

the update installer installs all flavours of the plugin unless you tell it not to (Customise), which on Mac is VST, AU and AAX.
It does not tax your system to have them all installed, since the plugin files are small.
If you uninstall or delete a plugin file, make sure you do not remove the VST plugin, since it is used by the Standalone app.

BR,
John  

thx. what’s the difference between the different flavors? i always thought VST was the gold standard so why would i use one of the other ones? so can i just manually remove the other AU plugins from the directory and they won’t show up in S1 any more (no uninstall procedure required)?

[tooner10]

actually it looks like EZD does at least have two different articulations for the bell and the rim of the ride img and the snare img has two one for the rim (which is a true stick that you can’t change) while the rest of the drum is single articulation. still would love to assign more articulation to the snare and HH img if possible or some other method to tighten up GM mappings

[tooner10]

@Scott said:

I don’t have any idea what exactly will suit your needs. You can try using the Show Web Shop MIDI so you can brows every Toontrack MIDI library for yourself to see if there is something that fits your need.

  

thx

[tooner10]

@Scott said:
You should be able to use the Edit Play Style section of EZD2 to make a groove (single kit pieces or the whole thing) less busy and/or lower the velocity also.  

this is true. but do you have any midi packs that might already have the “understated spice” i’m looking for right out the gate ? thx

[tooner10]

@Brad said:
Yup… you got it.  

i’m just getting back into exploring EZD2 after a 2 yr pause but it seems to me that if the original poster just wants a more dry sound, that going to the EZD drum mixer and turning down the ambient / reverb channels (like was suggested) is likely to give him what he wants vs having to go and buy more EZXs. it’s true the different EZXs should indeed contain different recorded kits so their should be a different sonic blueprint to each of them but i generally think this has more to do with the drummer and touch than the actual kit after the ambience is taken into effect!

i’d like to take another angle on this question in this thread. i think too many of the midi files included in these EZX packs are heavy-handed in terms of stylistic performance and don’t fit well with a lot of what i’m trying to do sonically. quieter and more dynamic music actually deserves a bit of finesse – what i’d call taste – and it requires players with chops to pull off well, especially in the slight fills required to keep such performances moving without overpowering them.

so if anybody has some midi pack suggestions (either toontrack or others) for the kinds of midi files i just described, please share them here as well. thx

[tooner10]

@John said:

@tooner10 said:
only 2 can actually be *actively* authorized correct?

yes, you are correct

cool got it.

on my SD i have two active and what looks like a third unactivated authorization (circle with slash through it). i didn’t want to click the X on one of the active auths thinking it would wipe it out *completely* but then maybe give me the ability to authorize one new computer. otoh, perhaps clicking that x just puts the once actively authorized computer down at the bottom so i can reactivate it? hopefully you understand what i’m trying to say. in essence if i click an x for an activation online, does it a) wipe it out completely so i have to do a complete reauth again of that computer if i ever want to use it again or b) does it store it as inactive and just move it to the bottom of product panel so that i can just deactivate one of the other two existing auths and then click another interface icon to make that one go active?

thanks

The ones at the bottom with a slash circle are inactive autos, i.e. formerly active that you have removed by clicking the ‘X’ on one of the active ones.
Don’t worry, you get a warning before anything happens when you click the ‘X’.
No, you cannot re-activate an earlier activated computer by yourself. When you have used up your 4 Authorizations per product, you tell us and we free the inactive ones up.

So go ahead and make the computer inactive that you are replacing with the Mac and then tell us when to free up (remove) inactive Authorizations.

ok i’m pretty sure i got it. there’s no way to easily swap back and forth to the 3rd or more computer if you use 2+ computers without doing a reauth every time. i guess that makes sense. most people won’t use 2+ computers. it probably doesn’t come up enough to be a concern for you guys either. but if it isn’t to too much of a problem to implement that feature it might be cool. fwiw, presonus has 5 active auths for studio one pro software. i’ve had like 3 to 5 laptops over the last couple of years and it’s nice to know i can / was able to bounce from one to another without having to login, dig up codes, deauth, auth, etc to get things going. just a thought.

thanks for the help

[tooner10]

john. super thanks. i didn’t see those mac / both buttons in the top right corner but i was pretty sure toontrack stuff was cross platform.

two followups.

1a) i gather i can actually have *more* than 2 computers authorized but only 2 can actually be *actively* authorized correct? after i buy the mac, i’ll primarily shift to using it but i’ll have a total of 3 laptops at that point. i wouldn’t mind leaving my toontrack software including sdx / ezx libs installed since they can take a really long time and space to install. that way if i ever want to switch to using either of the other two win laptops, it’ll be as easy as just going in to my online account and making one or the other two win authorizations active (e.g. toggling between them if i feel like it without having to go through the authorization process every time while leaving the full installs intact on all three laptops). does that sound correct?

2b) unfortunately i’m not sure activation of more than 2 authorizations is possible or simply as easy as toggling from 2+. when i look at my authorizations for my various products, if i have less than 2 authorizations, it allows me to authorize 1 new computer. on my SD i have two active and what looks like a third unactivated authorization (circle with slash through it). i didn’t want to click the X on one of the active auths thinking it would wipe it out *completely* but then maybe give me the ability to authorize one new computer. otoh, perhaps clicking that x just puts the once actively authorized computer down at the bottom so i can reactivate it? hopefully you understand what i’m trying to say. in essence if i click an x for an activation online, does it a) wipe it out completely so i have to do a complete reauth again of that computer if i ever want to use it again or b) does it store it as inactive and just move it to the bottom of product panel so that i can just deactivate one of the other two existing auths and then click another interface icon to make that one go active?

i hope that’s clear
thanks

[Author]

Replies