Editor needed: the buggyness of samples is no longer acceptable to an e-drummer!

[MintberryCrunch]

Hey Toontrack, please release a tool for SDX sample pool...

Hey Toontrack,
please release a tool for SDX sample pool sample editing: the buggyness of YOUR samples has taken such dimensions that it is no longer acceptable to an e-drummer!

Today I’ve first played e-drums with SD3 (after quite a long time of using other drum samplers) and I’m using the newest lib “Fields Of Rock” (only one kit until now) – and what should I say -> it is just ridiculous: I’m sure there are tons of buggy samples in that library. 🙁

After hearing weird cracking, crackles, clicks and other noises on my headphones while playing I’ve spent nearly a whole day doing research on 4 articulations that I suspected to cause these glitches. [ LINK ] And what do you think, how many buggy samples did I find within these few articulations (especially hihat and ride)? And what do you think will happen when I load other (F.O.R.) kit piece models and doing research after again crackling my head off – how many shitty samples will I find? Hmm…

I mean there is no problem to get rid of low end noises on hihats/cymbals BUT especially cracking sounds and crackles and hiss is a total no-go (even when not very loud in the original state). Also, squeaking noises (some noises sometimes even remind me of strange wailing or dog barking or howling winds lol – I wonder why most samples sound ok and clean – and then I hear that weird sound) sometimes are absolutely no fun!

I cannot imagine you’ll get this right and clean: if you’re not doing QC when recording and producing the libraries it is IMO an impossibility to find all these hundreds (or even more) of buggy samples afterwards that hide somewhere in between.

So what do you say about a possibility for the user to clean up the sample pool? You are absolutely in dept here! (my money also wasn’t faulty, was it?)

And I’m sure this ‘buggy samples thing’ won’t find an end. IMO it is far away from a professional and “SUPERIOR” demand ;).

I know that this ‘buggy sample thing’ is not very relevant for your main target group of music producers / drum programmers – BUT it is super relevant for e-drummers!!! If you do not consent to releasing an editor for your sample pool black boxes you’ll have to announce an official warning to e-drummers: “buggy samples -which can spoil the e-drum fun – can be included.”

The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

Hey Toontrack,
please release a tool for SDX sample pool sample editing: the buggyness of YOUR samples has taken such dimensions that it is no longer acceptable to an e-drummer!

Today I’ve first played e-drums with SD3 (after quite a long time of using other drum samplers) and I’m using the newest lib “Fields Of Rock” (only one kit until now) – and what should I say -> it is just ridiculous: I’m sure there are tons of buggy samples in that library. 🙁

After hearing weird cracking, crackles, clicks and other noises on my headphones while playing I’ve spent nearly a whole day doing research on 4 articulations that I suspected to cause these glitches. [ LINK ] And what do you think, how many buggy samples did I find within these few articulations (especially hihat and ride)? And what do you think will happen when I load other (F.O.R.) kit piece models and doing research after again crackling my head off – how many shitty samples will I find? Hmm…

I mean there is no problem to get rid of low end noises on hihats/cymbals BUT especially cracking sounds and crackles and hiss is a total no-go (even when not very loud in the original state). Also, squeaking noises (some noises sometimes even remind me of strange wailing or dog barking or howling winds lol – I wonder why most samples sound ok and clean – and then I hear that weird sound) sometimes are absolutely no fun!

I cannot imagine you’ll get this right and clean: if you’re not doing QC when recording and producing the libraries it is IMO an impossibility to find all these hundreds (or even more) of buggy samples afterwards that hide somewhere in between.

So what do you say about a possibility for the user to clean up the sample pool? You are absolutely in dept here! (my money also wasn’t faulty, was it?)

And I’m sure this ‘buggy samples thing’ won’t find an end. IMO it is far away from a professional and “SUPERIOR” demand ;).

I know that this ‘buggy sample thing’ is not very relevant for your main target group of music producers / drum programmers – BUT it is super relevant for e-drummers!!! If you do not consent to releasing an editor for your sample pool black boxes you’ll have to announce an official warning to e-drummers: “buggy samples -which can spoil the e-drum fun – can be included.”

The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

Topic

[Shen G]

I’m torn on how I feel about this issue. One side of me thinks it is a pretty expensive “premium” product, it should come with more QA/testing/less issues etc. On the other hand it is an ambitious leading edge product. Nobody else seems to come close in my ears to the “virtual reality” of having access to all the analogue gear (drums, percussion, mics, consoles, rooms) that they offer.  If it was so easy someone else would be doing it I guess.

But I do think some solution needs to be made.  I’ve reported a couple of complaints regarding samples (damn you Fields of Rock!  My favourite yet most bugged SDX).  It was only on the forums rather than a support ticket, but neither have been fixed since… over a year ago btw…

While access to the whole sample pool, with a convenient user interface and options to edit it etc, would be ideal.  I can imagine Toontrack having some issues it, being it implementation or opening up to some exploit for copy their samples or something?   How about a more basic “remove last sample played from pool”?  Saved per kit/project whatever.  With a notice/option “x samples removed from pool, click to undo”… or something, anything.

One issue that came up in a thread I made was those to primarily used SD3 for composing in DAW/MIDI would appreciate all the variety that they could get.  But for me as an e-drummer, those odd sounding samples jump out and break the immersion of playing a “real” kit.  With the solution offered so far being reducing the number of hit variations/samples until it goes away.  That’s not what I paid the “big bucks” for.  One shot machine gunning 😛

I do wish TT could be more communicative/interactive with their customers.  Moderated threads/polls for bugs fixes or feature request etc.

Cheers all.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: Windows 10

[BlueMistral]

I’ve sent a ticket with audio for a voice in the VK snare rimshot on the 30th of January 2024, it still hasn’t been fixed, yeah, Fields of Rock sounds awesome until you hear these funny things.

[Damian Blunt]

Apologies that you are experiencing these issues and thank you all for your patience. The samples recently reported have been removed from the pool and we will get an update out very soon.

Please be assured that we want you to receive the best quality products, consequently the sound libraries all get beta tested by a relatively large pool of testers for several weeks prior to release and the vast majority of issues are fixed but unfortunately some bad samples still slip through.

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting

[Shen G]

Appreciate all the front line does here, you’s are always very friendly and helpful.  It’s more the behinds the scenes fixes/features/updates that are bit slow/lacking perhaps.

 

Should I stick to using support to report odd samples?

A reason I thought it better in a forum was perhaps that it was better to gauge more than one persons opinion.  Like one of my issues was that some sidestick samples were so varied on the VK snare I thought they sounded like different drums, but others would appreciate the variety.  E-drummer vs composer etc.  I  wouldn’t want others to miss out on things because I don’t want them, but sucks to have to put up with them as well.

[Damian Blunt]

Shen G wrote:

Appreciate all the front line does here, you’s are always very friendly and helpful.  It’s more the behinds the scenes fixes/features/updates that are bit slow/lacking perhaps.

 

Should I stick to using support to report odd samples?

A reason I thought it better in a forum was perhaps that it was better to gauge more than one persons opinion.  Like one of my issues was that some sidestick samples were so varied on the VK snare I thought they sounded like different drums, but others would appreciate the variety.  E-drummer vs composer etc.  I  wouldn’t want others to miss out on things because I don’t want them, but sucks to have to put up with them as well.

You can report any issues on the forum or via support. Many thanks.

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting

1

Thanked by: Shen G

[MintberryCrunch]

Damian Blunt wrote:

Please be assured that we want you to receive the best quality products, consequently the sound libraries all get beta tested by a relatively large pool of testers for several weeks prior to release and the vast majority of issues are fixed but unfortunately some bad samples still slip through.

It’s nice to want that, but what are you actually doing to deliver the “desired” quality? It can’t be to let the customers and users do the work, according to the motto “let them discover and report bugs first”,
I would like to make another suggestion (since you incomprehensibly completely ignore the best suggestion, namely that of a sample pool editor -> with such an editor, any e-drummer (like user Shen G *) would be able to decide on the samples, and not only obviously faulty samples would be up for debate, but also quasi questions of taste) : hire people responsible for quality testing and quality assurance (any “unpaid” beta testers won’t do it: we can see that).

* “Like one of my issues was that some sidestick samples were so varied on the VK snare I thought they sounded like different drums, but others would appreciate the variety.”

The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

1

Thanked by: Shen G

[MintberryCrunch]

MintberryCrunch wrote:

hire people responsible for quality testing and quality assurance (any “unpaid” beta testers won’t do it: we can see that).

The test engine (I’ve created it here – so it’s of course possible to do detailed tests):

Looped playback of 10-20 notes at a fixed velocity (depends on the number of available round robins – so maybe even less or more notes) with “Adjacent Layers” deactivated and “Layer + Voice Limits” set to maximum. Playback with a tempo track: at low speed + medium speed + high speed. Pressing a key on the keyboard adds the value 1 to the velocity and pressing another key reduces the velocity by the value 1 (to be able to revert to the previous velocity stage). All 127 velocity steps should be tested.

It’s of course a bit work of listening but I’m sure a paid employee can do this! He will be responsible for a flawless sample pool of an SDX.

The Software Drumming Forum - tips & tricks + discussing drum samplers

• The post has been modified 2 times, last modified 1 year, 2 months ago by MintberryCrunch.

[Jason Smith]

@Damian

I’ve found a distorted ride on several samples for the following setup:

Fields of Rock – Live Kit – 20″ Sabian AXX X-treme

Note:

• There is no post processing(comp, gain, effects,etc)
• nothing hitting the clip indicators on any point in the chain from SD3 to Monitors
• Levels on the drum tab are set to default 0dB
• Levels on the internal mixer is set to -14dB at the moment
• Once I change the ride, the clipping goes away.

 

PS: I notice an update just came out. I’ll get to testing that again.

 

Any chance you’d provide some kind of discount voucher for a future toontrack purchase?

• The post has been modified 2 times, last modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Jason Smith.

[Damian Blunt]

Jason Smith wrote:

@Damian

I’ve found a distorted ride on several samples for the following setup:

Fields of Rock – Live Kit – 20″ Sabian AXX X-treme

Note:

• There is no post processing(comp, gain, effects,etc)
• nothing hitting the clip indicators on any point in the chain from SD3 to Monitors
• Levels on the drum tab are set to default 0dB
• Levels on the internal mixer is set to -14dB at the moment
• Once I change the ride, the clipping goes away.

 

PS: I notice an update just came out. I’ll get to testing that again.

 

Any chance you’d provide some kind of discount voucher for a future toontrack purchase?

• The post has been modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Jason Smith"> 2 times, last modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Jason Smith.

Please could you be specific about which mics and articulations? I can hear some pronounced cymbal resonances but not distortion.

We have released an update which addresses the samples you reported and also the low velocity VK rimshot issue reported by Shen G.

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting

[travis]

I’m just a few hours in with SD3, and I’m noticing a lot of noise in samples of the core library that sounds like switching power supply noise, i.e., a dirty high pitched ringing.

• This post was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by travis.

[Shen G]

Damian Blunt wrote:

We have released an update which addresses the samples you reported and also the low velocity VK rimshot issue reported by Shen G

To be clear, I think that was BlueMistral’s report 😉  My report of the missing or very low volume sample on the Ludwig Classic Oak – No Hole is fixed though 🙂

My issue with the VK is the hard sidestick samples (tbh, some gradient samples aren’t much better).  Where playing a sidestick beat sounds like it goes – tick tick tock tick tock tick tick tick tock.  I get that it is a more subjective thing, but it sounds ridiculous to me.  ….I still love you Fields of Rock!  What with the big Sonor kit, lovely modern Ludwig, novelty but surprisingly usable Staccato kit.  The awesome chrome kit in the Dry room plus nice other 2.  The amazing Brittish Drum Co kit in that beautiful Live room.  Great cymbal and snare selection throughout.  Plus some good percussion and fun stuff, and a room/mic setup that allows easy mixing and matching pieces from each room.  Getting the Rooms of Hansa to mix is beyond me.  And those corridor and chamber mic’s *chef kiss*.  I still can’t help but rate it as my fav SDX, and I have most.

I still think something needs doing about the sidestick issue.  But if that is only subjective/choice type thing, I think something, at least like my ‘remove last sample played’ feature needs to be introduced.  I literally have to set it to 1 hard and 0 gradient to stop it sounding all over the place, but then it obviously stupidly machine gunny.  But if other can use those different samples, I don’t want to take it from them.  Using a different snare for sidestick samples isn’t the end of the world, just seem’s to break from the otherwise quality of the virtual experience of the recorded gear.

To that end, feeling a bit like a FoR expert atm, and lover of that Live room/kit, I can’t say I’ve noticed anything like what Jason describes regarding that ride cymbal.

Cheers all.

• This post was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Shen G.

[Bear-Faced Cow]

Damian Blunt wrote:

Jason Smith wrote:

@Damian

I’ve found a distorted ride on several samples for the following setup:

Fields of Rock – Live Kit – 20″ Sabian AXX X-treme

Note:

• There is no post processing(comp, gain, effects,etc)
• nothing hitting the clip indicators on any point in the chain from SD3 to Monitors
• Levels on the drum tab are set to default 0dB
• Levels on the internal mixer is set to -14dB at the moment
• Once I change the ride, the clipping goes away.

 

PS: I notice an update just came out. I’ll get to testing that again.

 

Any chance you’d provide some kind of discount voucher for a future toontrack purchase?

• The post has been modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Jason Smith"> 2 times, last modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Jason Smith.

Please could you be specific about which mics and articulations? I can hear some pronounced cymbal resonances but not distortion.

We have released an update which addresses the samples you reported and also the low velocity VK rimshot issue reported by Shen G.

I just went through all of the articulations on that ride and didn’t find any type of distortion. Only the cymbal resonances that you mentioned (which don’t need fixing). Could be an audio interface issue.

jord

---

Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

• This post was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Bear-Faced Cow.

[Bear-Faced Cow]

travis wrote:

I’m just a few hours in with SD3, and I’m noticing a lot of noise in samples of the core library that sounds like switching power supply noise, i.e., a dirty high pitched ringing.

• This post was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by travis.

That sounds more like mid frequency resonances which are natural (these are recorded without any real processing unlike SDXs specific to their genre) and more left to the processing/mixing process or a preset.

jord

---

Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

• This post was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Bear-Faced Cow.

[Mark King]

Agreed and very natural sounding.

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

[Jason Smith]

Got around to testing the distorted ride situation here again.

 

The distortion is coming from the AMB Mid channel (see sreenshot). I’ve got no effects, JUST the track enabled, and there’s a fair amount of distortion coming off this channel. It seems to affect most everything on that channel, regardless of what level I have it set at. Everything is set to default levels with mic bleed. Nothing cranked. Nothing red-lining.

Running a Mac Studio M2 Ultra with plenty of headroom here on CPU. I’ve even knocked the buffer to 64, however this seems more like an analogue-sounding distortion.

This is the only issue with distortion I’ve come across in my setup, so I’m certain it’s rooted somewhere within the software.

 

Thanks,

J

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sonoma (14)

[Author]

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