NigelNot sure about PC users but on a Mac there are limited choices for a simple drum programming environment further complicated by the inability of Logic to send MIDI from one AU to another. While we can program Superior Drummer from Logic’s Piano roll or Hyper Editor, neither are right for beat making as often this is a pattern based activity. Also the GUI is very basic.
What we need is a really simple to use pattern sequencer that can be programmed real time or step either running inside Superior Drummer or as a standalone that has virtual midi ports.
You have already done something on the right track with EX Player Pro. What is now needed is the ability to edit MIDI.
Native Instruments have Maschine, which is a great idea in theory. I own it but hardly use it as it does not have MIDI import thus rendering all those great groove clips you make useless.
I often like to reuse clips and edit them, but doing this in Logic is very tedious. Come on bring some Toontrack magic to this like you did with EZKeys.
And the sooner the better!
Whitten I can’t really relate to your midi woes.
I use Superior in Logic and edit the provided midi. Or program my own using a keyboard or v-drums.
I use Maschine extensively. Sooooo easy to edit pre-programmed grooves, or create your own grooves in Maschine.
Juicy Yes i’m not sure what more they can offer except a visual maschine like grid,
If you dont /cant do E drums,
Best thing is to get your 3 finger technique going really well on a keyboard so you can even just play in accented phrases and that sort of thing in between supplied midi.
Like chris, i guess , i am totally comfortable playing it all in, as its fun, fast and surprisingly real once you think about it and get used to what you can do.
From there ,
Logic’s comprehensive midi event list and piano roll editor alongside normal cut,copy paste seems very friendly and fast ,one of the best out there.
NigelOkay let me explain. Yes the piano roll fine for most uses and I can cope with it. However I come froma hardware beatbox and hardware sequencer background. I was used to programming patterns then stringing them together into songs
Now obviously there was no GUI on these (except for my sequencer a QY700 that had a smallish LCD). I learned to program mostly in real time except for the occasional triplet roll!
However times have moved on.
Logic has no way to neatly break down writing into patterns. Yes you can use loop bars to cycle a section but its not the same, its still very linear. What I liked about my drum machine was that you could delete beats just by holding the delete button and the pad for that sound. Maschine does this by letting you control clicking on a beat in its GUI.
Now there are loads of 3rd party drum sequencer plugins out there but they are all design to load samples. None are able to drive Superior as AU plugins cannot pass MIDI.
Maschine is the only one closest. But it does not have Midi import (I am curious to know how you are editing midi grooves in it as the current method to get them in involves dragging and dropping MDI in the plugin version of Maschine then recording it in, saving as a project, then having to quit the plugin and open standalone).
You see standalone is the only way to hear Superior triggered by Maschine.
I just thought that as Toontrack have already partially addressed groove making with EZPlayer Pro it would not be that big a step to develop fully. Its also an opportunity to do it the Toontrack way. Simple clean GUI dedicated to Toontrack products with the ability to have named slots for each drum sound.
I spent ages doing something with the Hyper Editor, but I hate the look its very tiring on the eyes and lacks features.
Juicy Yes me too i have owned and totally abuzed
Drumulators
Linn Drums
Drumtraks
Oberheim DMX’s
Alesis HR16’s
Roland R8’s ,Simmons and Roland’s MC500 too.
So in logic i can make patterns,see patterns,arrange,loop patterns cut,merge,patterns and can have amazing resolution all better than all the great drum machines,all with instant visual fdbk.
The only thing missing is that auto generated and user selected fill type mode and the delete as you roll mode.
For me that, Machine gun effects are the realm of drum machines in the eighties.Kind of Retro,I am guessing you do more electronic /dance style music.
But fair enough,
I wonder what they think ?
NigelActually no, I programme natural drums. However if the base of a beat is fairly straight I like precision and the step approach suits this. I like to mix and match programmed and live played.
I started way back in the 80s and originally growing up with electronic New Wave like Depeche Mode, Visage, Soft Cell thats where I started. Then moved on to Sisters of Mercy and all the other Goth acts based around drum machines and as sounds got more realistic became obsessed with fooling the listener. Peoplenowhave no idea of the grief involved in storing songs to cassette tapes, floppy disks and memory cards then trying to load them in the dark at a gig (not knowing if they will read or not). Most of the early units had no storage capacity at all.
I have owned many units over the years: TR606, TR808 (sold it just before the late 80s dance scene made them valuable again, typical!), Yamaha RX-15, Boss DR660 (still got this one), Alesis DMPro (and this).
Juicy Yeah ok so we are similar .
I really like dynamics and natural sounds so feeling it and playing it is kinda more important than how i do it.
I tried some step beat box type gizmos, even the step drum machine in Logic but i find that approach less transparent and a bit robotic for my workflow now.
Even if i am doing a more electronic groove.With the Looping, Grid, Excellent Dynamic and Quantise parameters per region and the Arrange all linked with it’s Midi list editor and piano roll,Logic must be one the best drum machines ever with gigs and native power to spare but …..
does not have 2 (maybe more) functions specific to what you are into.
Momentary Pad erase.( did love that )
Synced generative Auto pad play (or however they term it)
If there was a take on the drum machine approach within SD or EZ certainly no harm.It would be fun.
NigelBeen thinking about this more and seeing the update to EZKeys makes me convinced you can do it. How about some kind of update paid or free to Superior Drummer. There could be an extra tab for pattern creation inside the plugin/standalone window.
It just strikes me that the best way to drive a plugins sounds via MIDI is inside the plugin. And on a Mac there are no ways to do this outside the plugin apart from in the DAW piano roll. This is generally fine, but its not very nice to stare at or use. Toontrack make nice looking, easy to use interfaces.
So I reckon you can do it! You did Toontrack Solo so its halfway there, just needs a grid like window similar to Maschine with a way to add the kit pieces from the Kit you have in the Construction window.
Go on you can do it!
Edit: I see BFD have this feature in their plugin, so it can be done!
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