Stephen Carter
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Stephen CarterOK – so what’s the fix? Is there one? Who’s responsibility is it?
Meanwhile I’l work around it like I’ve always had to do since I got SD3…
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
Stephen CarterI don’t have Maschine but I’m prepared to accept that it may have the same problem. I do however, have Melodyne and I have not noticed the same problem…!!
Probably going to get EZ Drummer 3 – looks like it may provide all I need from a drum plugin so maybe SD3 will no longer need to be an occasional source of angst for me. Lets hope that EZD3 is a lighter weight plugin and won’t suffer the same in its midi edit page.
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
Stephen CarterAs I and others have said before SD3 compensates for audio playback latency but not for the graphics – Why??? No matter the cpu loading I don’t have the same problem with any other plugins which employ a realtime visual feedback i.e. the graphics and audio are in sync but not SD3! I don’t see how reducing the latency during recording, relates to, or has any affect on this issue, but I’ll try it even though I’m not recording as such!
I can, of course, drag the midi into Studio One and play back the same midi in the S1 edit page perfectly in sync but not within the SD3 gui – shame.
I expect that this will boil down to Toontrack and Presonus each blaming the other instead of getting to grips with a solution – sigh…..
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
Stephen CarterTo Carriondude
The problem in Studio One is latency compensation not acting on the video aspect of the SD3 plugin. The workaround, as stated in a previous response, is to temporarily disable other plugins/tracks that are not required whilst editing in the SD3 Grid editor so that the overall latency is reduced to an acceptable level such that the audio and video are more in sync making editing quicker and more reliable (reduces the guesswork!).
Why the SD3 plugin video component is not responding to Studio One’s (and other DAW’s) latency compensation remains a bugbear and a bug.
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
Stephen CarterHi David – making music or videos is not the issue. The issue is that it’s very difficult edit the midi when you cannot identify an errant hit/s because, due to lack of latency compensation, the cursor is nowhere near the actual hit that is sounding – the sound is in sync the playhead isn’t…!! Yes, there are workarounds but having the grid edit facility not functioning adequately is a nonsense.
I see a prior reply from one of the developers apparently saying that the SD3 is unable to recognise it’s position of play in a DAW in VST2 format – we’re now at VST3 – so could this issue be fixed by upgrading SD3 to VST3? If so, it’s high time that it was done.
Oh – and while your fixing it, how about getting a decent reggae drummer to play the reggae midi next time – if there is a next time.
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
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Thanked by: RobertStephen CarterAs the originator of this post it remains a frustration that no definitive solution has been found for this occurrence. However, like others on this forum I have found ways to reduce the sync problem, which is definitely due to latency issues between the DAW, in my case Studio One (now v4.6) and SD3 v3.1.5. If I initiate SD3 standalone or a new song and open the same SD3 song file, which is problematic in the main song, the sync issue is not irksome.
Why the out of sync issues between SD3 playhead and the DAW (which incorporates latency compensation) playhead arise I don’t know but dependent on the plugin latency, typically 150 – 350ms for modest song setups, it varies with the SD3 playback cursor/visual hit indication being ¼ to ½ of a beat ahead of the audio, on the Grid, Drums and Mixer views, making editing a real PITA to put it mildly!
Anyway – I’ve found that turning off all plugin inserts, then back on again maybe a few times, will often reset something in the latency discrepancy and bring the SD3 cursor back into a reasonable alignment with the song playback (discrepancies much smaller than a ⅛ beat out are difficult to detect but there is still some small mismatch there!) . One thing in Studio One that seems to exacerbate the problem is if the ‘Console Shaper’ is engaged as toggling this will toggle the sync issue between reasonable and well out, even though the latency reported for the SD3 VSTi remains the same, so I turn this off if I want to edit in SD3!
However, this is a workaround and I would (and others it seems) prefer that the SD3 playhead and the DAW playhead were in sync – AT ALL TIMES!
Regards and compliments of the season to all.
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
Stephen CarterThanks very much – just needed confirmation that it is being looked into. Good luck, I look forward to a possible resolution.
Regards….
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
Stephen CarterAnyone – anything?
This issue is not resolved, has it been confirmed as a visual latency bug and is it being looked into?
Some further feedback would be appreciated … Regards
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
Stephen CarterThanks for trying to help…
I’ve run SD3 in a couple of projects with ‘Record Arm’ both engaged and not engaged and it makes no visual delay difference at all and neither does it make any difference to the reported latency for the project nor the SD3 plugin’s track latency. One project was less intensive (CPU/Plugins wise) than the other with registered latency reported to be less by about a factor of 4.5:1in Studio One. Both projects exhibited a visual delay compared to the audio and unsurprisingly the song with the greater latency had a greater audio/visual disparity.
The visual delay is noticeable both in the ‘Drums’ and ‘Grid’ view, however, as previously reported, the audio is in sync with the remaining tracks. Obviously (or seemingly so), Studio One is compensating for the audio latency but not the visual latency in the SD3 plugin. This begs the question; which software, if either, should be responsible for the synchronisation of the visual/audio output from the DAW?
I’m both frustrated and intrigued by this problem and look forwards to further input and possible solutions.
Regards…. Steve
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
Stephen CarterThanks Bob for confirming that this anomaly is not unique to my setup – at least I’m not going doo-lally!
Your observations, on this thread and your other post, are virtually identical to mine but on a different DAW, which would seem to suggest that this is an SD3 gremlin. I feel confident that the Toontrack people are looking into this and will, in due course (hopefully sooner rather than later), provide the necessary fix.
Regards….
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
Stephen CarterI lowered the Device/Process block size in studio One to 512 but it makes no difference! The cursor, visually, is still about a quarter of a bar past the drum hit position on the grid before that hit sounds. Any other suggestions to remedy this problem would be appreciated.
Regards…
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
Stephen CarterHello John – thanks for taking the time to respond.
OK – Yes the cursor is visually ahead of time between 1/8th to 1/4 of a bar (song at 166 BPM) so the notes, which are in time (synced with the song) play after the cursor has passed them!
Yes this happens with all (well the three that I tried) projects but from memory it affects all of them.
No this does not occur if I start a new song with SD3 only and load the same SD3 song-track. No, it does not occur with SD3 in stand-alone mode. In both of these modes the latency reported by Studio One is 0.3ms, which is significantly lower than the reported latency when playing in a full S1song (project) where for SD3 it is 40 – 50ms.
Sample rate 44.1kHz
Block size 2048 samples
Not sure about buffer size you are referring to but the control panel on my interface (Saffire Pro 40) shows ASIO buffer size of 2048
Hope this info’ helps – regards…
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
Stephen CarterSD3 version 3.1.2
Regards…
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
Stephen CarterYes – I do…
Still on learning curve with SD3 (recent convert from EZD2) haven’t broken out to individual DAW channels yet so mixing everything in SD3 mixer. I don’t profess to be an expert but the stock mixer & plugins are just fine for now as I feel my way in but eventually I expect to route to console channels in my DAW (Studio One).
I have some questions, which I’ll post as separate threads…
Regards…
Windows 10 Pro/i7 6800k @3.4Ghz/16Gb ram. Studio One Pro, Melodyne Editor 4, Vocalign Project, Superior Drummer 3, Izotope N2-O8 and various other plugins. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport, Focal Alpha 50's, Korg Pa3x, Korg Pad Kontrol, numerous guitars, basses & other antiquated outboard gear.
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