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[rgarber]

Thanks for the tips. I’ve had a chance to work with EZ Keys a little more and I can see where between the DAW’s capabilities and EZ Keys, there’s a lot to explore in possibility.

[rgarber]

@tombur #2:

“I still can’t find a way to “lock” chords so that the next variation dragged down into the songtrack will follow my chosen chords. I can change the chords, but as soon as I audition a new clip all my choisen chords are lost, and I have to start over again.”

What I intend to do on this is save the file to my own folder (or library of sorts). This is an issue I have with EZ Drummer too. Two issues:
1) Description limitation: I never can find easily what I’m looking for. Either drummer’s lingo isn’t in my blood or the variety of patterns in the way they are described is lost on me.

2) There’s so many that I wouldn’t use being all I do is jazz, that I would like a library of presets to choose from that’s all my own that match the song development I do.

So I like the idea I can load up midis. So what I intend to do is create my own library of midi’s to load from my own folder rather than trying to figure the difference from variation 1 to variation 4 – and give them a description I can understand. And since it be my chords I wouldn’t have to rely on the chord changer COF thingy to do my dirty work though I do like having it there for quick changes. I also like the transposition feature if I need to change the chords to another key.

I haven’t done any of this, mind you, I’m just assuming I can do this from what I’ve seen thus far.

Somebody said this elsewhere that they think the library is limited so expansion packs will be offered. I’m all for that. I rather concentrate on the kind of music I do being put in the preset library than have a ton of presets I wouldn’t use. At the same time… somebody tell Toontrack to hurry up with those things!! (with the expansion packs I mean).

[rgarber]

I would like to see markers added. I mean, where I can place a mark and annotate what that mark is. So if I want to mark off every four bars (hard for me to count up to five… ) then I, uh, can mark off every four bars. Or let’s say I’m building up a piano accompaniment for something I’m working on in a DAW. To me I would like to annotate what letter (A or something like that) or measure number… just so if I need to come back to it via a save or something, I can know where exactly this segment was suppose to be. Don’t know if the markers and stuff could be saved since this is midi though…

[rgarber]

@Tombour… I’ve only had EZ Keys for just a few days, I by no means have a full grasp of its abilities or limitations. When I wrote my original post I said I didn’t get it because IMO, without the feature to do basic editing of chord placement – I didn’t see how they could advertise EZ Keys as being a ‘song development’ platform. I’m strictly down in the chord window where chords are dragged to, nowhere else at the moment. I’m not really trying to critique the rest of the program. Since the manual didn’t discuss Split at any length, it looked to me the chord placement substitution could only happen where chords were already present; in the patterns. To me, that is Loop construction when all you can do is mix and match preset patterns. Now that I have a better understanding of the undocumented Split feature – at least where I am at now – I can see a path where EZ Keys will be useful.

Let me add to this briefly. You can’t imagine my relief when I saw the Split feature does what it can do. First of all, nobody wants to look stupid in making a bad purchase. I thought I was incredibly stupid for having spent so much on something I wasn’t sure of what it did when there was already a demo. But understand, it’s the idea of what EZ Keys can do which is so compelling that my usual ‘safe side’ instead rushed to purchase.

Secondly, and just for context, goto Soundclick.com and look up Living Waters Jazz. It’s instrumental big band music of which I do the composition (big help from BITB there), arranging and then the rendering with samples. Every one of my songs has one major fault. The piano part, either generated by me or taken from BITB – doesn’t match the song. I’m a sax player, not a piano player, and if there’s anybody who envies the piano player, it’s me! This whole industry of digital music ASSUMES the only person developing digital music is a piano player. And rightly so, I guess. So just alone, the piano accompaniment feature of EZ Keys is a miracle worker – if it works out to a degree where it’s easier than what I do now – and provides parts more suitable for the songs I’m arranging.

I’m right there with the critique that we should be allowed to include our own variations in the presets as well as adding a preset to a brand new chord progression. Not to mention what other suggestions others or Toontrack ends up adding to EZ Keys.

As someone who used to play in bands, I miss the invaluable contribution of other members in the band made made to the totality of the composition. In rendering, it’s all up to me. For instance, what the piano player brings to a band is something I can’t replicate as a sax player. So if someone builds into a music program the ability like what EZ Keys offer (where I can drag the presets that match what I’m looking for into my renderings), well, that’s like having a real person at your disposal – is it not? That’s what’s incredible about EZ Keys that I jumped on.

This is a program I want to see succeed, and not fail. (By the way, I’m not suggesting that anybody here wants to see EZ Keys fail.) I want to stress that even from the original post I made, that my opinions were underpinned with a desire to see EZ Keys work as I thought it could when I made my purchase.

[rgarber]

Okay, I do get it now. Part of the problem is the only thing covered about this in the manual about Split is this:

“Basic editing tools are also offered via the menu on the left of the Song Track: the Edit tool, the Split tool, and the Chord Notation tool.”

That’s it.

The problem I had was I couldn’t add or remove chords in other parts of the same measure except where chords were already there, which left me with the impression that EZ Keys was some kind of Loop construction platform. In the zoomed out view the Split feature will only divide up by measure. But, if you zoom in closer with the magnifier icon, now you can split a measure into different chord lengths and EZ Keys will prompt you with, I believe, a suggested chord which you can change. Even better, if you make a mistake you can highlight a chord and remove it. It will leave a hole of sorts. However, to fill the hole the select nearby chord boundary and drag so the chord fills the hole. (Now that’s something I didn’t think to try, I wonder if you can change the chord length by just dragging the chord boundary).

Obviously it doesn’t take much to make me happy but in learning this removes my obstacle to understanding EZ Keys. While I don’t see EZ Keys as much of a song developing platform, yet, at least this gives me a much needed first step, a piano accompaniment construction tool. Being a sax player with very little piano experience, this can be very useful.

Hey, thanks y’all for being so civil. I thought this thread would degrade into nastiness (especially when I thought folks were getting the a different idea of my original post.) I’m going to see if I can edit my original post to point to this post here.  

[rgarber]

Okay, hold the phone… I think I just found something. Yep, I did. There is a way to add chords but it’s still through using a preset, but at least it can be done. I knew about zooming in/out of the measures but I wasn’t aware the split tool changed when you do. If you zoom in on a measure and split to the appropriate beat, the measure will split – and, the option to add a chord presents itself. Now that’s what I’m talking about. It’s not perfect but very doable now. A bit cumbersome because you still have to find a preset close to the chords you want, unless you just pick one and change all the chords. Heck, you can even import a plain midi as a template and I would imagine you can keep splitting til  you get the chords YOU WANT (nudge nudge hint hint) added. Now I’m seeing I can get this. I do hope if anything comes of this that somebody at Toontrack makes this feature a bit easier to do though.

I’ll say it again, I’m starting to get it, and this might work out afterall.

[rgarber]

Ah, so you enjoy the power of DAW, so do I. But this, IMO, is about this:

“Songwriting made easy!
EZkeys is a revolutionary plugin and stand alone instrument that combines a world-class piano player, songwriting partner, arranger and a meticulously sampled grand piano – all in one package. Developed with Toontrack Music’s forward thinking approach to music composition, EZkeys delivers breathtakingly rich tonal qualities and allows the user unlimited creativity through its groundbreaking functionality.”

This is what I see and purchased EZ Keys for. The EZ reference you refer to is almost insulting. Nowhere did I or anybody else refer to difficulties in using the product let alone the lack of workaround possibility. Nor did I say anything about it being a BITB replacement. I’m simply lost where it contends to be the above and instead is something more akin to Loop machine than song development.

Song development is what? Loops? Isn’t that rather a limited definition of song development when the spectrum is so broad? To me it’s quizzical that I simply cannot type in the chords where I want, when I want and then select from the patterns what the piano will play like. That is what we do on a piano for goodness sake, is it not?

To me, if Toontrack wants to get into the Loop business, that’s fine. But say it! Don’t call it “song development.”  Don’t get me wrong, I’m not anti-Toontrack. I have both EZ Drummer ( a couple of add-ons to it) and Superior Drummer.

Let me take this back to my original post. I wasn’t being a smart-alec when I wrote, “I don’t get it.” It’s not a commentary, I’m saying I really don’t get it. It’s like I’m missing something about this program because I don’t see song writing in it. I see Loop creation.

I do Big Band composition and arranging and half my fun is coming up with a realistic rendering of such with lots of samples. I and I’m sure the others here know all about the power of DAW. Shoot, if they could even just get EZ Keys to do the accompaniment part of what the advertising suggests and that I didn’t have to write my own piano parts, I’d be glad to own EZ Keys just for that.

But it’s not my song if a preset pattern dictates where my chords will go. What is so hard to understand about this? I’m not concerned about the price. It would at least be nice if somebody said these features will be taken care of. I can’t stand the arrogance of those who rear back and say this is the way it is, that’s how it’s gonna be and you either like it or leave it. Not saying anybody in this thread said that but I had this discussion with the retailer I bought it from and it got that ugly. To me, if you use the words ‘song writing’ then let the package live up to its claim. Make this truly a song writing tool and then I get it.

[rgarber]

Well as much as I appreciate your guess, having the program and guessing what it can do is so far two different outcomes. I guessed too, and bought it. After a few hours staring at it, I’m still puzzled what programmer looked at EZ Keys and yelled, “it’s finished!” It’s quite the disappointment because the potential is there, I can see that, but why would they go this far and then just stop? It’s begging for completeness. Buy it and see for yourself if you don’t say the same thing like I did, “where’s the rest of it?” But thanks for the guess, it’s the most anyone’s offered yet.

[rgarber]

I don’t know, it’s still cutting and pasting somebody else’s work, I don’t really accept that as a serious song development vehicle unless it’s to be considered an entry level tool. My first impression is that it’s missing so much of the song development needs I would think any further use of it would impede song development rather than assist it. For me, the editing functions where I can start a chord progression and then effect the player accompaniment to the chord progress is a need – if only to get the accompaniment part of EZ Keys useful. Then a further addition of editing tools to apply chords to “where and whenever” in a measure (and make it less cumbersome) is also an immediate need. I accept that what I’m saying probably does sound like a BITB replacement, maybe because the only redeeming quality I find in EZ Keys is that I could have theoretically controlled the ‘style’ of any number of measures through the preset midis. But so much is lacking that the program comes across to me as more a gimmick than an attempt to put a serious product on the market. Maybe one day EZ Keys develops into a real song development platform but right now I see it being relegated to the shelf. I don’t mean to be a bummer, I’m quite bummed out on having made the purchase.

[Author]

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