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propianist
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Topics Started: 0
Replies Created: 15
Has Thanked: 2
Been Thanked: 9
Hi Andreas,
Having both columns of info (midi note number PLUS key name) on same menu display would be much nicer. That’s a fact.
It does become a workflow problem often, because different hardware & software manufacturers do number octaves differently in key names. ie. piano middle C = note number 60 = can be named C3 or C4 depending on which manufacturer you refer to. This is a widely known phenomenon!
Consider the KICK DRUM (MIDI note number 36) What is its corresponding key name, either C1 or C2…?
Alesis SR16 drum machine = Kick = MIDI note 36 = key name C1 on LCD screen
Alesis SR18 drum machine = Kick = MIDI note 36 = key name C1 on blue LCD screen
Roland TD10 V-Drum brain = Kick = MIDI note 36 = key name C2 on green LCD screen
Roland TDW1 Expansion Board = Kick = MIDI note 36 = user manual (page 25) key name is C2
Roland TD30 V-Drum brain = Kick = MIDI note 36 = user manual (page 150) key name is C2
Pearl / Slate Mimic Pro brain = Kick = MIDI note 36 = key name C2 on LCD screen
Gewa G9 brain = Kick = MIDI note 36 = key name is C2 on LCD screen
Toontrack EZ Drummer 2 = Kick = MIDI note 36 = key name C1
Toontrack EZ Drummer 3 = Kick = MIDI note 36 = key name C1
Kawai MP8 piano / master keyboard = MIDI note 36 = key name C1 on LCD screen
Reaper MIDI piano roll editor = MIDI note 36 = key name C2
Native Kontakt 6 = MIDI note 36 = key name C1
UVI Workstation = MIDI note 36 = key name C1
So Toontrack’s key name octave numbering is actually different to most Roland V-Drums hardware, Pearl Mimic Pro, Gewa G9, and to Reaper DAW, all of which are popular platforms, and confusion does arise. But I am honestly not complaining to Toontrack about such disparity per se, because other manufacturers cannot agree either. Nor am I suggesting Toontrack switch to another numbering methodology, because of their already huge existing user base. But I’m simply asking please just display BOTH your names and numbers columns side-by-side for increased clarity please.
For instance of a pretty common workflow where it becomes an issue – if playing Roland V-Drums kit recording MIDI into Reaper, then editing piano-roll events afterwards with the aid of master keyboard, while auditioning the drum playback using lovely EZ Drummer sounds…
…you’ll be scratching your head because the MIDI numbers on piano-roll will all be correct (36=36) but the displayed key names will all be one octave different (C2 vs C1) so you’ll need to figure how to work with this disparity by mentally transposing one octave for each note name. You cannot apply global transpose of one octave to all MIDI events (to try “correcting” displayed key names) because that will totally mess up all the note numbers and corresponding sounds – it is better left alone. But the octave numbering disparity still exists because of the platforms used, and the user needs to keep track of what’s going on.
Desktop musicians always find it easier to think in musical key names like C2 and D2 when tapping drum parts in from their master keyboard, rather than abstract numbers like 36 and 38, but those note numbers are the only reliable thing you can believe, if unsure which octave numbering key method your hardware / software used. Therefore being able to see both info columns side-by-side really would help when bringing EZ Drummer 3 into the melee as well.
EZD3 has actually made things worse than EZD2 because you can’t right-click the drum in question anymore and see the note mapping quickly, you’ve got to leave the main screen and go > Settings menu > e-drums… > then tap the drum > click Mapping > then toggle Note Number vs Key to see each one while remembering what the other one was!
It doesn’t need to be so awkward.
Please display both columns of info in same menu.
Also please add “right-click on drum” pop-up option “Details” again to directly show this mapping info and other playable articulations too below the sounds / import sample.
ARTICULATIONS!!!!
On this very subject – as it stands in EZD3, from the main play window, there is no way anymore(!) to audition the different playable articulations for each instrument. In EDZ2 you could right-click each drum and “Details” would give you all the articulation samples playable and show their MIDI note mapping, but EZD3 doesn’t show any of these extra playable articulations anymore from the main screen – instead it forces you to go find the Settings menu > go to the e-drums menu screen > and click Mapping before you can even see or hear the other playable articulations.
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Thanked by: Miles MaxwellHi Neb,
Thanks for your reply.
Good suggestions, I agree with them all, except where you say it’s most likely that I already have this virus running rampant on my computer.
I would disagree with that because my Windows security & virus protection settings are all working successfully every day and doing their job, protecting my system, and all threats are getting 100% blocked and removed. Hence that’s why I cannot install or run the standalone program for EZD3, because it’s flagged as a threat.
Obviously if I had inadvertently allowed the May 3rd file of EZdrummer3.exe standalone program to run, with a suspected trojan virus warning, then I might have activated some malicious code, but I didn’t run it because Windows Defender already blocked it. So that virus (if there was one) shouldn’t have got into my system.
I’ve got controlled folder access switched on, and all Windows security updates installed up-to-date, and everything is working fine and I’ve got no current threats reported . I’ve done regular quick scans and full scans too, and everything is good and working fine. I’ve kept any nasties away by being hyper-vigilant and not taking risks with anything.
I haven’t experienced any virus or malware problems before, and I haven’t seen Windows Defender react like that with Severe warning to any of the other Toontrack installers that I’ve encountered over my previous installations of EZDrummer 2 and 11 other EZX expansions purchased recently.
I’m sure Windows Defender may not be as amazing as some of the expensive commercial anti-virus packages on the market, but if Windows Defender tends towards being over-zealous, and blocks absolutely anything even slightly suspect, even giving false positives sometimes, that still seems like a sensible “better safe than sorry” method to me.
As I say, I haven’t ever had any problems using it for several years, so I believe it must be working well.
Hi Doughead,
Thanks for your reply.
You’re suggesting trying different web browsers like Chrome or Firefox, and talking as if I’ve downloaded something bad from some dodgy unknown website.
But I didn’t download anything from the web.
The file in question we’re talking about isn’t a web download, it is the main standalone program of EZ drummer 3 which was unpacked and installed automatically by the official Toontrack installer, from within the Toontrack Product Manager utility itself.
Like everybody else, I tried to install on May 3rd but it didn’t work because Windows Defender deleted it automatically.
The actual EZdrummer3.exe standalone program created inside the folder C:/Program Files/ Toontrack/EZdrummer3 is the file which Windows said was infected with a virus and blocked it from running.
I still haven’t got this EZD3 program working standalone on my computer. The Toontrack Product Manager says it is not installed.
I’ve paid good money for it, same as everyone else, but Windows 10 won’t allow me to install or run it.
Nothing else before or since has ever triggered this specific “wacatac.b!ml” trojan virus warning on my computer. The only time I’ve seen it is May 3rd, trying to install EZD3 standalone.
Hi redddog,
If it doesn’t show up there in Reaper’s window, then you need to find where a file called EZdrummer 3.vst3 is located on your computer, and copy and paste this file into the specific correct folder which is…
C:/Program Files/Common Files/VST3
Remember, this EZdrummer 3 plugin is not a .dll type file – because it is a VST3i type plugin which isn’t the same thing, and has .vst3 file extension.
So Reaper cannot “see it” and it therefore it won’t work, if you’ve mistakenly put it inside the wrong folder such as the same VST plugin folder you have your other existing .dll plugins stored.
All these typical VST plugin folders I’ve listed below, where you perhaps might look to find if you’ve accidentally put in there, are really the WRONG folder for it! They are for plugins which have .dll extensions, but not for .vst3 plugins like EZdrummer 3.vst3 which doesn’t belong in any of these folders. Yes, I know it can get confusing because names are very similar…
C:/Program Files/VstPlugins ……..wrong folder!
C:/Program Files/Steinberg/VstPlugins ……..wrong folder!
C:/Program Files/Common Files/VST2 ……..wrong folder!
C:/Program Files (x86)/VstPlugins ……..wrong folder!
C:/Program Files (x86)/Steinberg/VstPlugins ……..wrong folder!
C:/Program Files (x86)/Common Files/VST2 ……..wrong folder!
C:/Program Files (x86)/Common Files/VST3 ……..wrong folder!
There could also be another subfolder called Toontrack inside any of these. Have a look in there too.
When you eventually find it, it needs to be copied into here, which is the CORRECT folder for 64 bit VST3i plugin such as EZdrummer 3.
C:/Program Files/Common Files/VST3 ……..correct folder for EZdrummer3.vst3 plugin file
Also, rather than this current split menu…
…this would look better and be a clear improvement…
The biggest problem EZD2 and EZD3 both suffer from is the INCONSISTENT method the toms are assigned factory MIDI notes…
Thankfully though EZD3 is less fixed than EZD2 and does allow you to “Learn” a new custom user note for each part, via MIDI input (only!) from your e-drums or keyboard – though being able to edit the screen value directly with a mouse click n drag would have been far “EZ-ier”.
Here’s the tom preset factory MIDI note assignment, for all libraries I personally own…
with full 5 TOMS playable…
EZD2 Modern_________________C2__B1__A1__G1__F1
EZD3 Main Room______________C2__B1__A1__G1__F1
EZD3 Bright Room_____________C2__B1__A1__G1__F1
EZX Gospel______________ A3__C2__B1______G1__F1
EZX Progressive_______________C2__B1__A1__G1__F1
with full 4 TOMS playable…
EZX Alt Rock_________________C2__B1______G1__F1
EZX Modern Metal_____________C2__B1______G1__F1
EZX Southern Soul 70s_________C2__B1__A1__G1
EZX The Classic_______________C2__B1__A1__G1
with full 3 TOMS playable…
EZD3 Tight Room______________C2__B1______G1
EZX Big Band_________________C2__B1______G1
EZX Classic Rock______________ C2__________G1__F1
EZX Kicks & Snares_____________C2__B1______G1
EZX Pop!_____________________C2__B1______G1
EZX Rock!____________________C2__B1______G1
with full 2 TOMS playable…
EZD2 Vintage_________________ C2_________G1
EZX Southern Soul 60s__________C2_________G1
So why aren’t they mapped consistently???!
Why does EZX Gospel’s 5-tom mapping need to be different from all the rest with 5 toms?
Why does EZX Classic Rock’s 3-tom mapping need to be different from all the rest with 3 toms?
Why must there be two contrary schools of mapping for the 4 tom setups? 4 toms is 4 toms! Keep them the same 4 notes!
The annoying problem manifests whether you’re playing MIDI e-drums live with drumsticks, or playing MIDI piano keyboard with fingers, or even just playing your MIDI file / drum patterns from DAW or standalone – all your sources are producing live note data across let’s say 4 different toms, but whenever you audition through your different sound libraries even those with 4 playable toms on the screen graphic, they don’t always marry up with the same toms you see onscreen, and some hits get played on wrong tom, while some hits are just missing and not heard at all!
It seems the reason Toontrack have assigned their notes in this awkward layout, is due to the original sampled physical drumkit in their recording studio session having either “rack toms” or “floor toms” and they’ve labelled according to that count. Hence Toontrack choose to define a 3-tom kit with 2 rack toms + 1 floor tom (eg. EZX Rock!) as being different MIDI note assignment than a 3-tom kit with 1 rack tom + 2 floor toms (eg. EZX Classic Rock) and frankly this is just annoying / confusing / awkward for the end user who just wants to strike the 3 toms they see on the screen.
Surely the end user doesn’t really care their 4 toms were originally 2 rack + 2 floor, or 3 rack + 1 floor, or 1 rack + 3 floor, or 4 rack or whatever… they just want to play them as 4 toms!!!! The session notes and info can be found and read for interest, but now they’re just digital samples to be played! 4 toms is 4 toms! I’ve got drumsticks in my hands and I just want to play my 4 toms, on my Roland V-Drums kit’s 4 toms, and I obviously want to hear the correct 4 tom samples, matching the 4 toms I can see on the computer screen in front of me, and so on obviously whilst I audition through my various EZX sound libraries without having to stop and re-program my e-drum brain module note settings every time I switch library!
Understandably going from 5-tom to 4-tom to 3-tom to 2-tom libraries you must expect some degree of adaption to account for the mismatch, and understandably any 5-tom MIDI pattern won’t sound correct played back on a 2-tom drumkit, but at least if there was one consistent logic to factory assignments which held true for all core and EXZ libraries and matched GM standard too, and thus one familiar consistent method of adaption between the 5-tom vs 4-tom vs 3-tom vs 2 tom setups, which we could all remember, that would make things nice, consistent and predictable to use. The current system is very messy when you mix and match different EZX and look deeply into exactly which toms are being played by which notes.
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Thanked by: rpm-njThank you Erik.
You wrote, “Uploading a new copy of the software would not solve the problem since it would be exactly that, a copy. It would still trigger the warning…” meaning that your software would still contain the same exact code as before, therefore might still look like a virus again to Windows Defender.
But what I find impossible to understand is WHY your drum software should otherwise trigger the security block, if it is 100% clean and safe? Can anyone please explain that? Again and again Windows Defender thinks that download .exe contains a virus, so why does it keep on seeing that there?
Whatever unique DNA fingerprint it is that Windows Defender is recognising, must be a very specific, very precise code DNA fingerprint which matches that specific known trojan virus called “wacatac.b!ml” or whatever, which Windows can positively detect and identify and categorise as being that particular trojan virus, out of the millions of other possible trojan virus it knows about. It seems so ultra precise, so ultra complicated, so like an impossible-to-duplicate DNA fingerprint, that I literally cannot believe its a chance trillion-billion-to-one type co-incidence or fluke that EZdrummer 3.exe standalone application just happens to include such amazingly similar lines of code doing some other innocent function like playing a ride cymbal, which were so indistinguishable in form and function and appearance to a very specific known trojan virus code that it actually fooled the bang-up-to-date advanced anti-virus protection built into Windows 10, which could not tell the difference between the malicious virus it already knows about and your innocent code which plays drum audio and MIDI.
That can’t be correct, can it? It can’t be a fluke accident that Defender needed to block this software installer. Surely if Windows can positively identify that actual specific virus code, then it must be there inside the downloaded files somewhere.
If you are saying “I can assure you that there are no viruses in our software” – then please explain why would EZdrummer 3.exe content ever be confused with / identified as this trojan virus in the first place? How else could your software be triggering this Windows Defender security explicit warning so precisely? That’s what I can’t understand.
I don’t pretend to understand trojan viruses or how they work at all – but common sense tells me there’s no smoke without fire, and something must be wrong somewhere for the security alert to keep being triggered. It keeps finding something that is cause for concern, therefore the file isn’t safe to trust.
I would like it really if you could re-upload the 749MB file online again (perhaps from a different location) and re-name that new version 1.0.1 so everyone can see that’s a fresh copy, and the changelog can just say “minor updates for Windows 10 install” etc. It’s one thing we can rule out, having a brand new file to download and try fresh.
Thank you,
Richard
Possible answer – if you look at the EZX expansions which are still for sale, reading the system requirements…
Some of the older EZX expansions like DFH say “A working EZdrummer 1.4 (or above) or a Superior Drummer 2.3 (or above) installation.” which means they should still work even for the long discontinued EZ Drummer 1.
Other more recently released EZX expansions like Big Band say “A working EZdrummer 2.1.8 or Superior Drummer 3.1.4 (or above) installation.” so that particular title only works in EZdrummer 2, but not EZdrummer 1.
Toontrack will want to keep on selling products, like EZX expansions, if they possibly can, to the existing EZD1 and EZD2 user base out there, because every one they sell makes money for them. Nobody buys all 55 expansions at once, so people will always be interested in acquiring more than they currently have.
Some people will just be happy to stick with EZD1 or EZD2 platform which they already know well and are familiar with, and won’t be in any rush to upgrade to fancy EZD3 just yet- but Toontrack would ideally like to tempt them to, and the best way they will achieve that is by releasing many brand new EZX libraries in the future which do require EZD3 and then those people will eventually lust after those new sounds, and will cave in and buy EZD3 once the overall wealth of unique new EZX sounds (and new features) it offers are just too good to resist – but different people have different thresholds of being impressed and what they lust after. I bought into the whole system because I loved the Big Band EZX.
The clear fact that Toontrack have chosen not to update those exsting 55 EZX pack system requirements to only EZdrummer 3 and above, and are still keeping the EZD1 and EZD2 platforms alive for future expansion for existing customers should show you pretty clearly what their policy probably might be – to keep extending support as long as possible for obsolete software so long as there is new income to be made from the sale of expansions / MIDI packs, etc.
Therefore if one day a Windows update comes along which makes EZD2 stop working, it will obviously be in Toontrack’s financial interest to try to issue an update fix for EZD2 to keep it working, so those existing EZD2 users (as well) can continue to buy the 55 compatible EXZ expansions.
Thanks again Erik for your further reply. Thank you for trying to get this fixed ASAP.
I think that I should not fall into a category of “few unfortunates” just by being a person who uses Windows 10 in the normal standard way it works.
Am I alone?
Surely 99.9% of other people also let Windows 10 run its normal default background security / virus protection settings, and have never tried or needed to change or circumvent them. That’s just the normal state of affairs, and any software designed for Windows 10 should expect it and not fight against it.
It shouldn’t require any special tricks or workarounds to install this software, should it?
Thank you Erik very much for your reply. Please keep us updated ASAP.
I’m sure you can understand the concern though.
If Windows 10 itself blocks a downloaded .exe file and quarantines it because of a severe virus threat, should I or anyone really feel 100% safe to “Restore” that file, manually override the Windows Defender security, ignore the warnings and just go ahead and run that .exe anyway?! What if it does seriously mess up my computer with something nasty?!
I’m sure everybody else would feel the same way in this situation – we’ve all got a lot of valuable / personal / important stuff on the go to risk anything bad happening.
Doughead – for instance, if your own Bitdefender had detected a trojan virus in EZdrummer 3.exe what would you choose to do then? Ignore and install anyway, or let your protection software do it’s thing, quarantine the file, and get on the Toontrack forum looking for help and answers?
Erik,
You can talk about “false positives” and you’re right, there may indeed be many cases of that out there, but surely there are also many cases of real virus causing real problems too, and who’s to say which is real and which isn’t? I’m certainly not taking any risks with my own main music computer which has several thousands worth of expensive software already installed. Would you run the risk on your own personal PC at home if faced with this choice?
Toontrack can’t expect people to just ignore a severe virus warning from Windows 10, and trust you that everything will be okay. That’s not good enough.
Perhaps Toontrack could re-upload another fresh copy of the 749MB file in question to the servers again later today ASAP for everyone’s benefit, so that affected users who haven’t got it working yet can re-download it again officially using Toontrack Product Manager, click the Install button, and watch the process complete 100% successfully and actually work without seeing any virus warning messages. That’s the only answer.
Seriously Toontrack must be able to deliver a final working software & installer that doesn’t (even accidentally) trip the Windows 10 Defender, or else something is going wrong.
Richard
Hi Doughead,
I’m glad it worked for you.
But myself and Joe Shane (posting above) have both witnessed the same issue today.
Theory… I live in the UK. And perhaps you live in USA, Australia or some other region of the world, etc. I think it’s true that internet downloads can sometimes be directed to use different servers (for the sake of speed) which are more local to the geographical region / continent, so maybe your files were downloaded from a different server, versus the files we have downloaded from another server, elsewhere in the world, which seem to have a virus (according to Windows Defender.)
Every time I re-download and re-install again, it does the exact same problem. I don’t know how to fix that.
I re-posted my earlier message below here, to avoid splitting the topic / replies across 2 threads…
So today I downloaded and installed and authorized everything for EZdrummer 3 content correctly, using Toontrack Product Manager, as instructed, but so far it’s only working as a VST3i plugin from within Reaper.
Toontrack Product Manager > Show Details says “standalone is not installed” in red letters. (SEE ATTACHED SCREENSHOT)
If I click the brand new EZD3 shortcut icon on my Windows 10 desktop, to launch the standalone software, it tries to do something for a split second then gives me error messages saying it can’t find the file “EZdrummer Software Installer.msi” (SEE ATTACHED SCREENSHOT) and then clicking OK gives further pop-up error messages about the path not being found, and an “Error 1706: No valid source could be found for product EZdrummer 3 Software” and so basically it crashes and won’t launch the program.
I searched the file system manually and I couldn’t find that file “EZdrummer Software Installer.msi” anywhere either so it wasn’t lying about that.
I have tried to re-downloading / validating / re-installing EZD3 again from Toontrack Product Manager, which does appear to unzip a file called “EZdrummer Software Installer.msi” when it goes through it’s routine of installing, but every time it says finished installing successfully, we just end up back at the same place again, with no standalone having been installed. Only the VST3i plugin works, but standalone does not.
If I manually look inside the folder “C:/Program Files / Toontrack / EZdrummer 3” where the standalone .exe program should be located, it is not there, and I’ve just got the “EZdrummer 3 operation manual.pdf” only.
I do already have EZdrummer 2 installed (latest v2.3.3 and all updates) and that is still working fine, along with my eleven purchased EZX expansions.
I also looked through my Windows 10 Security history for earlier this afternoon and found this entry for “EZdrummer 3.exe” saying that it contained a trojan virus and so Windows has automatically blocked and quarantined it. (SEE ATTATCHED SCREENSHOT)
Can anybody help or advise please?
In the last 2 weeks since hearing about EZdrummer 3, I have invested 716 Euro / £624 GBP so far buying into Toontrack’s EZdrummer ecosystem, and I was expecting this thing to work and install easily without hassle.
Richard
Yes!!! I got exactly the same problem.
Please look at my forum thread I posted about 30 minutes ago!
Topic: EZD3 “standalone is not installed” | Toontrack
It seems my installation failed (I tried re-downloading repeatedly and it still hasn’t worked yet.) and left me with no standalone EXdrummer 3.exe program because that file appeared to have a severe virus, and Windows 10 was automatically blocking and quarantining that file, thus saving my computer from disaster, but failing to install the program.
I still haven’t found any solution to this?????
The corrupt file in question was downloaded directly from Toontrack Product Manager.
In Reaper, on Windows 10, after you go… Track > Insert Virtual Instrument On New Track
The older program EZdrummer 2 appears as a VSTi in the list as… “VSTi EZdrummer (Toontrack) (32 out)”
but newest EZdrummer 3 appears as a different type VST3i much further alphabetically down in the same list as… “VST3i EZdrummer 3 (Toontrack) (32 out)”
Try that, it should be there.
If for some reason it doesn’t appear, locate the plugin folder path… C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3 and make sure you have EZdrummer 3.vst3 plug-in file inside that folder, so that Reaper can find it.
The new plugin is not a .dll file, by the way. The original EZdrummer 2 (VSTi plugin) was a .dll file, however the newer EZdrummer 3 like other VST3i plugins all have the .vst3 file suffix instead, so if you were searching your file system for a .dll plugin file for EZD3 that’s why you couldn’t find it.
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Thanked by: cary and beast91Hi Pelle,
I can highly recommend the Big Band EZX recorded by Al Schmitt at Capitol Studios. It sounds fantastic.
Here’s what its “Broadway Brush” factory preset kit sounds like on a typical jazz / bossa style drumloop:
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Thanked by: Per-Olof BergYou could use Windows 10 magnifier tool (press Windows key and the “+” button) to magnify the entire screen bigger, and then re-position the viewable area so you can see your EZD2 window in it clearly.
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