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[LeanderL]

Another question please: When soloing the overheads out (and even muting all other outs) and moving all close mics of the cymbals to the left, why do I still hear the splashes etc.? I do NOT hear the crashes, but the splashes…and some chinas…splash1 and splash2 are routed to the “OH bus”. The OH bus goes to the OH out…the OH out is soloed…BUT the close mics are silent…but I still hear the splashes. Why?

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[LeanderL]

Thanks!

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[LeanderL]

@Brad & Korken Thanks for your helpful post! Yes, my mixer wanted to have dry files anyway, but I wanted to use wet ones…I have made music for 30 years…always without much technical knowledge. I am a passionate creative mind that writes lyrics and songs. I used to do everything on my own without knowing anything about mixing. Just did it my way, sometimes lucky, sometimes not…underground sound did not matter in the 90s…but then the libraries and software became better and better, I bought A LOT of equipment…got health problems (tendon sheath, could not play the guitar and piano much or not at all for 2 years…still can only jam, but not play as I want to)…over the years, I have written 4 hours of music, but because I wanted to do everything on my own AND not knowing much about the technical things and always afraid to make mistakes, I wasn’t able to release music for many, many years…

I’ve bought and tested dozens of guitar plugins and tones…then needed a year to pick the sound I like best.
Same for the drum sound. Or “play the Korg Triton VSTi”, which is fast vs. “program realistic strings in the highly professional very expensive orchestral libraries I also own.

As I don’t want to release my “precious and beloved” music with my crappy sound, but I want to do everything on my own, I was stuck…

That’s why asking a mixer for help is VERY difficult to me. It’s like giving away your baby to someone you don’t know.
After spending years selecting the drum sound, guitar tone etc. I like it is difficult to send dry files…and not do everything on my own..but it is not possible to release songs without changing my approach.

So yes, normally, it makes sense to send your raw drums to a mixer who mixes and shapes everything…but it is my beloved drum sound and tone…so having to send him the comp file to listen to and he recreates it makes sense…and is the best solution, but difficult as I want MY sound…

My approach is that I send my files, he checks them for overlapping frequencies, makes them louder by sticking to the original sound as close as possible!
And I also tell him how to pan everything…

I know what I want and also how to pan etc…the only things I really don’t understand are EQ, compressor, limiter and stuff like that.

The bottom like is that it is a very difficult topic…the best solution is to send him what I got minus the comp track and he should do the parallel compression…but it has to work with my velocities….learning EQ and stuff is not a solution as I could not make progress in 30 years.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

1

Thanked by: Brad

[LeanderL]

Korken wrote:

I too understood (assumed, actually) that your mixer didn’t want the bleeds, and because of this you were muting all channels but one and rendered one by one. If your mixer do want the bleeds, then I would say the best method is to use multioutput with a normal render of all at once. I don’t get the issue with that, sorry.

The problem is that someone helped me build my kit. He created a parallel compression bus and out. My kit sounds good inside SD3, but I have to export the tracks…and exporting a wav file with compressed stuff is not ideal and a bad idea according to the mixer.

If the kit is like that:

Kick.wav
Snare.wav
Toms.wav
….
Overheads.wav
Ambience.wav
Comp.wav -> parallel compression of the kick, snare, toms etc. etc.

Of course my mixer could listen to the comp.wav file and then add sends to the kick, snare, toms etc. and create a new parallel compression on his computer.
But I programmed the midi for my compression…different compressions affect if there is a crescendo or hits sound alike because of too much compression.

I want to use the exact drum kit sound I have, but have to export it…
I also talked to the creator of the drum kit channels, the comp bus/out. He said that reworking the kit WITHOUT a comp bus and out is not easy as everything uses parallel compression and you cannot just add the FX there ontop the kick, snare etc.

I will try what Brad suggested.

Drumjack, you have a bad attitude, telling others what to think of me. How old are you, 15? I think Korken and I are old enough to talk to each other without your interference. Thank you.

EDIT Brad, is this what you suggested? I created a new bus from the snare bus…and redirected the snare bus send from the comp bus to the new snare comp bus. Then the snare bus goes to snare out and the snare comp bus also goes to the snare out. Please note that I forgot to lower the snare comp bus fader.
Now I don’t know what to do with the old “comp out”. The FX of the comp bus sit ontop the snare comp bus now…but at the end of the entire comp chain, there are two FX sitting ontop the “comp out”. They compress the signal even more…what should I do with them? Should I simply move them ontop the snare out, indicated by the red line and the “?” in my screenshot?

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

• This post was modified 1 month ago by LeanderL.

[LeanderL]

Thank you! He wants to have the bleeds. I disabled the crashes and other cymbals there as I want to create a single wav with just crashes, chinas and splashes without bleeds.
Ah, now I understand…snare bus + snare comp bus -> both to snare out…

Thank you!

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[LeanderL]

Brad wrote:

LeanderL wrote:

Drumjack, your negativity isn’t helpful at all. If you don’t have anything else to say, you don’t have to keep writing that I am too stupid or do not want to do what others recommend because it is not true.

Guys, I have been using multiout for two years! Superior Drummer is in multiout mode…and I have every out of SD connected to a track of my DAW. My DAW’s tracks are:

1) Vocals
2) Bass
etc.
4) Kick
5) Snare
6) Toms
7) Overheads
etc.

But I don’t know how to export the playback there to one wave file each. I guess I can google it how to do this with Cakewalk Sonar, but my main problem is that a popular drum and guitar preset creator helped me build and tweak my drum preset…and one of the outs is “Comp”…this comp out has sends from the kick, snare, toms and everything else…
The kick sends its signal to the comp out at -2.2db…the snare at 0, the toms at -2,2, hihat -4.3 etc.

My external mixer (the guy that will mix my songs) does not want a dedicated wave file with compressed sound of various kit pieces. Therefore, I want to mix the signal there to every kit piece. When exporting the kick, I have everything muted but the kick out and the comp out. When exporting the snare, I have everything muted but the snare out and comp out. etc. etc. … but this is only doable by exporting every track individually. I created drum presets for this with all required muted channels so I simply load a preset and do not have to bother about what to mute and what not.

Moreover, the crashes, splashes and chinas will be silent in the exported overheads as I want the mixer to have a single file with JUST these kit pieces…without bleed.

My only solutions are exporting track by track and ignoring the sample issue OR I do not use a comp out…but in this case I don’t know how to move the effect in the comp out to the kick, the snare, the toms etc.
Because these use sends…and there is a difference between adding e.g. reverb to a track directly or adding a send to a reverb bus.

Do you know what I mean? How can I get the effects in the comp out to the kick? And the snare? And the toms etc. WITHOUT changing the combined sound?

Here’s my SD mixer:

Thanks for the clarification. This is interesting to me, because, putting aside the sample discussion, by doing each track separately, you are changing the sound of the preset.

For example, with the OH and the kick and snare going through the same COMP channel when the kick or snare hits, you essentially duck  the ringing of the OH (i.e. cymbals) which in theory creates more space for the kick and snare, by printing each track separately you are in essence doing away with the interaction… Hope I am making sense.

Anyway here’s my solution as it were, I don’t know if you are on Windows or Mac, sometime in the future, if you have a question, it’s a great help if you indicate with the pull down list at the bottom what platform you are on….

I am on Mac so my answer will be Apple-ish, 🙂

First off, create a new preset, so your original remains intact.

With the snare set the send to an unused bus, (Renamed snare comp) when that bus pops up (on Mac) press Option and drag the 2 plug-ins from the Comp Bus  channel to the new bus, and route it’s output to a separate output channel. Repeat the same for the kick and toms. Now to completely get rid of the kick, snare and toms from the Comp Bus channel, select disable bleeds from all instruments on the OH Out Channel. (image attached, don’t worry mine is greyed out because I wanted to test this out before replying)

Actually you could disable bleeds on all channels if that is what you truly want.

Let me know if any of this is making sense….

Reply To: Exporting drum tracks with multiout? version: 3.4.2
Operating system: macOS Tahoe (26)

• The post has been modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Brad
  1 month, 1 week ago by Brad
  1 month, 1 week ago by Brad
  1 month, 1 week ago by Brad
  1 month, 1 week ago by Brad"> 6 times, last modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Brad.

Thank you! But why should I disable bleeds? Won’t this disable the bleeds in the OH? I have bleeds in the OH (all kit pieces) and kick and toms bleeds in the snare channel.

So basically I should create a new snare bus for the comp of the snare, correct? But then I will have a snare.wave and a snare_comp.wav, correct?
Is there a way to directly add the comp effect to the snare track so I will only have one snare file?

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[LeanderL]

Drumjack, your negativity isn’t helpful at all. If you don’t have anything else to say, you don’t have to keep writing that I am too stupid or do not want to do what others recommend because it is not true.

Guys, I have been using multiout for two years! Superior Drummer is in multiout mode…and I have every out of SD connected to a track of my DAW. My DAW’s tracks are:

1) Vocals
2) Bass
etc.
4) Kick
5) Snare
6) Toms
7) Overheads
etc.

But I don’t know how to export the playback there to one wave file each. I guess I can google it how to do this with Cakewalk Sonar, but my main problem is that a popular drum and guitar preset creator helped me build and tweak my drum preset…and one of the outs is “Comp”…this comp out has sends from the kick, snare, toms and everything else…
The kick sends its signal to the comp out at -2.2db…the snare at 0, the toms at -2,2, hihat -4.3 etc.

My external mixer (the guy that will mix my songs) does not want a dedicated wave file with compressed sound of various kit pieces. Therefore, I want to mix the signal there to every kit piece. When exporting the kick, I have everything muted but the kick out and the comp out. When exporting the snare, I have everything muted but the snare out and comp out. etc. etc. … but this is only doable by exporting every track individually. I created drum presets for this with all required muted channels so I simply load a preset and do not have to bother about what to mute and what not.

Moreover, the crashes, splashes and chinas will be silent in the exported overheads as I want the mixer to have a single file with JUST these kit pieces…without bleed.

My only solutions are exporting track by track and ignoring the sample issue OR I do not use a comp out…but in this case I don’t know how to move the effect in the comp out to the kick, the snare, the toms etc.
Because these use sends…and there is a difference between adding e.g. reverb to a track directly or adding a send to a reverb bus.

Do you know what I mean? How can I get the effects in the comp out to the kick? And the snare? And the toms etc. WITHOUT changing the combined sound?

Here’s my SD mixer:

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[LeanderL]

Brad wrote:

Hi there,

Trying to understand your work flow .  Why are you bouncing MIDI/instrument to audio one channel at a time? If you do them all at once, it should result in a cohesive set of drum tracks with properly related samples. Yes the round robin multilayered system can’t guarantee the same samples will be used with each output channel printed in isolation, i.e not generated at the same time. Hope I am understanding your question correctly.

Reply To: Exporting drum tracks with multiout? version: 3.4.2
Operating system: macOS Tahoe (26)

• The post has been modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Brad"> 2 times, last modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Brad.

Because I don‘t know how to bounce multiple tracks at once. Always been doing one by one OR mixing inside the DAW preset. But as someone else will mix my songs, I have to export all tracks for him.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[LeanderL]

Thanks, I do use multiout…but when I use my DAW‘s export function, the e.g. Close mic of the snare uses certain samples, but when exporting the overheads with snare bleed next, there are different samples used, correct?

Every export task restarts the playback and uses different samples, doesn‘t it?

I don‘t do a batch export function that generates multiple audio tracks in one go.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[LeanderL]

PS Just checked some official Toontrack midis. Some use open 4 als the default open sound…another midi uses open 3…and yet another midi alternates between open 4 and open 1…is this even possible DURING a doublebass part? Is this possible and you can alter the open sound depending on where you hit the open hihat or is this fake?

Official Toontrack midi with open edge 4, but with open edge 1 variation…first hihat only, then full drums:

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[LeanderL]

Another basic question please: Open hihat 0-5…what are these? They go from a bit open to very open…but how do you use these? Is open hihat 0 a bit open and hihat 5 is the maximum of an open hihat? And you go from 0-5…or do you think about setting up your virtual hihat and decide that “open 3” is the maximum, then play with open 0 to open 3?
You can tweak a real hihat and its level of openness…open 5 sounds too much for me…just taking the sound…so I went for “open 2” for my basic open hihat sound…but does this mean that using open 3, open 4 and open 5 is unnatural or even impossible because it would require resetting/setting up differently a real hardware hihat?

Google AI says:

In Superior Drummer, “Open Hi-Hat 0” to “Open Hi-Hat 5” are different levels of openness, controlled by MIDI CC4 (pedal position) or the mod wheel (CC1), where 0 is fully open and 127 is fully closed; you adjust these stages by clicking the articulation tabs in the ‘Drums’ view and altering their volume/settings in the ‘Level‘ or ‘Mapping‘ tabs, or by recording CC data from your e-drum pedal or MIDI keyboard for realistic transitions. 

This sounds like I should either use open 0 to open x…. or if I say that open 2 is my default “open” articulation, I should stop using open 3, 4, 5, correct?

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

• This post was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by LeanderL.

[LeanderL]

I have Cakewalk Sonar. The midi editor is not that good…so I prefer the grid editor.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[LeanderL]

Yes, grid editor of course as it is better than inside the DAW because you see all the kit pieces without having to remember numbers.
Thanks for your time and for trying to help me. 🙂

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

• This post was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by LeanderL.

[LeanderL]

Thanks! Question answered. 🙂

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[LeanderL]

I don’t want to sound rude, but I would be thankful for instructions I can understand. You keep telling me what I should NOT do (“don’t look at xy, don’t do this and that)…my question should be easy to answer… -> what should I do in the grid editor to create the part included in the video -> the drummer uses his hands to play the ride and snare etc. while his foot plays the hihat which opens and closes.

If there is NO kit piece to select in the grid editor, you could tell me that it cannot be done in the grid editor and its hits, but it has to be done via CC only.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[Author]

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