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John
Participant
Topics Started: 3
Replies Created: 24
Has Thanked: 4
Been Thanked: 6
Marcel I wanted to give you a couple links to other parts of the support forum here that you might enjoy reading. These are located under Support/Forum/EZKeys instead of “Community”.
Here’s one good article you might like to glance at, it was a topic brought up by James Ford:
https://www.toontrack.com/forums/topic/how-to-write-piano-parts/
Another one was specifically brought up regarding copyright issue, post originated by John Bowen:
https://www.toontrack.com/forums/topic/copyright-issue/
Enjoy
John Dandrea
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
Marcel – ahhh, I see. I also, use Studio One (Pro 4). I was also using some of the built-in tools with studio one, but when I purchased the EZKeys Studio Grand package, I was so impressed with both the sound quality as well as the ease of use, that I quickly bought in to several other of the EZKeys MIDI add-ons, including Ballad, Ballad2, Singer/Songwriter, and (one of ) the Country kits I can’t recall which (I’m at my day job right now and not in my studio). The fact that EZKeys operates so well in stand-alone mode, allows a very great degree of creative freedom to compose without even pulling up the full blown DAW. I have probably created more than a dozen songs now, some instrumental as well as many with lyrics/vocals, and EZKeys has really become almost an addiction with me.
Back to your composition though, you’ve done remarkably well with using Studio One tools outside of your EZKeys classic electrics, probably you have done a lot more work than you needed to by going that route (smile). But your results are very good all the same!
Since you seem to be using the EZKeys in much the same creative mode as I do, I’d like to share with you a couple of the tunes that I’ve composed with my EZKeys Studio Grand, and I also have & use the EZDrummer2 bundle for my various rhythms. My site is at http://www.johndandrea.com, click on the Music menu tab, and scroll down to find various albums of material that I’m always working on. Album #8 has my latest 2 works with EZKeys and lyrics, one is called “To Be Near You Again”, the other new one I did is called “One More Road”. If you’d care to hear a couple of my instrumental works that feature EZKeys, scroll up to Album #3, and check out “Forever Roses”, and “Iron City Shuffle”. In fact, both of those instrumentals were so much fun, I made them into music videos also (I’m also a newbie videographer) , and the link to those videos is on my News/Blog menu tab. Hope you enjoy. I place stuff here in the forums from time to time, but I really am so busy working full time and composing & recording as a hobby, that I don’t often post too much. But I love the quiet, easy listening and ballad styles and when I hear a composition that I really like, I just have to comment.
Finally, you mentioned about ethics and that it’s not you (us) who did the playing. Yep, I’m sure that most all of us who have heard and used this absolutely incredible tool called EZKeys, feels that way to some extent. And yet, this is just a reflection of where the “state of the art” is at today in digital audio sampling and recording. If you look elsewhere on the EZKeys forum, you’ll see many rather lengthy discussions that I have participated in, regarding that exact topic. It involves the ways that we as the creators, are using the tools like EZKeys to assemble the chords, progressions, and make modifications via our own MIDI DAW editors to get a note by note sound that best represents OUR own unique melody that we create. I think that you’d enjoy those discussions, and we’ve had several excellent contributions by Toontrack’s own moderators here. Keep on creating – I think the more we use these tools, the more we gain the skills and the confidence to really move out more and more on our own (making our unique modifications) and you realize that the tools are separate from the end-result song that we create, and that it’s not a dilemma or copyright issue. Please feel free to chat at more length via email, you can reach me on my site’s Contact menu. I will try to pop in here to the forums more often, and I always welcome discussions involving creating songs with EZKeys. I know I must sound like a commercial ad for the product (!) haha but really I’m just one more happy user plugging away with such a fun and creative instrument.
best wishes,
John
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
Marcel – I love what you did here, “What If” sounds beautiful. I am curious to ask you, if you did not have any form of EZKeys acoustic piano, what EZKeys instrument do you have? What software did you use then, for your acoustic piano sound? In any case, I enjoyed “What If” very much, nice work!
I have the acoustic piano bundle in EZKeys and several of the MIDI add-on packs, and I am about to post some new work on here. I do agree with you, that EZKeys is a very inspirational piece of composition software, I have come to rely on it very much for my own writing. Thank you for posting your song!
Best regards,
John
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
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Thanked by: Marcel_36Correction to location above – I’ve found that any time I upload a revision to a song on my website, it changes the location number in the link. So it’s best I give you a location to the main page, then direct you to the song. So it’s at my site at: http://www.johndandrea.com then just navigate to: Music / CD3 / Movin’ On. EZKeys and EZDrummer made this song fun to record even though I wrote it back in 1983. It’s a ballad style song. Hope you enjoy.
John
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
Correction to location above – I’ve found that any time I upload a revision to a song on my website, it changes the location number in the link. So it’s best I give you a location to the main page, then direct you to the song. So it’s at my site at: http://www.johndandrea.com then just navigate to: Music / CD3 / Ten Years From Now. EZKeys and EZDrummer made this a cool song to record, and my friend Steve who wrote this song back in 1992, is an amazing songwriter. Enjoy.
John
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
agreed! I work so much in EZKeys stand-alone mode, it’s become a composing addiction. But even when I’ve completed an entire song piano track in the solo mode, I still have to take it over into the DAW to do what I consider essential edits that take the more generic melody pattern and tweak it to the unique melody that I’m writing, on a note-by-note basis.
I made the suggestion elsewhere on here that this would be a great feature for an EZKeys 2.0, to build in at least a Lite MIDI editor right into the solo program! It’s a great dream….!
John D.
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
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Thanked by: Henrik EkblomI have never had any problems with exporting MIDI from EZKeys directly into my Studio One Pro, as soon as I drag the MIDI from the EZKeys plug-in over to a blank space on the Studio One track area, it instantly creates a MIDI track for the instrument – I’ve never missed a beat… sorry for the pun… so it looks as though it’s specific to your DP9 – I’d recommend check with any forums on DP9 to see if anyone else has the same issue.
I’ve found that EZKeys is just an excellent product and can use it as a totally stand-alone composing tool as well as a totally integrated plug-in in Studio One that works back and forth in MIDI really nicely. I hope you can find a resolution to this issue, Chris – it sure doesn’t sound as though you’re doing anything wrong – drag and drop is all it should take, and nothing should be chopped off in the process. Please keep us posted here as you continue working on the issue.
best of luck –
John D.
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
Mark; yes you’re correct about the right-click and location, but I’ve found that this only works when you are still in the segment’s original structure. once you start making changes to it, then it loses whatever linking is built into the sequence. That’s what several of us had mentioned, regarding losing the ability to “track back” that segment.
For example, I might work with a phrase in the editor and CUT 1-2 chords off, and COPY several chords from another area and then PASTE them in the sequence that I want. I might transpose the whole sequence I end up with. At some point I find that the Locate function no longer works. So, my work-around is to take graphic snapshots as I go – once I have built an entire Verse or Chorus part for the track for example. It’s a tedious step, but it has already proved to be a useful addition to my working notes that I keep for each song project. Thanks though, for the response! Happy recording!
John D.
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
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Thanked by: Mark PetersJoe, I agree with what you’re saying in essence, “EZkeys can do your work within certain boundaries.” And I believe that as we learn those boundaries better we can capitalize on the features that EZKeys excels at, freeing us up from us having to play & record complicated performance pieces while permitting an expression of our original melody lines.
I wasn’t sure I understood your comment regarding MIDI editing though, “And how can a MIDI pattern, that follows its own line, match an explicit melody? The answer is either not or just by accident.” I’m sure I’m not the only one who drags a MIDI sequence over to my DAW after making my chord changes (and I also transposed into a more singable key for me), but then I did some further note-level editing in the DAW in order to add a pattern of my melody line. And it’s by design, not by any accident. There are times when you do want a few notes from your melody line while the piano also is playing the rhythm. I consider that this is the same thing as when a guitar player does both a rhythm part and adds a few notes of a melody – I always love to hear that effect. But if your point is that you can’t do that within the current EZKeys editor, then yeah. It requires that you drag it into your DAW to do that part.
I actually had a perfect example of this point, so I’ve posted a song over on the community board just now, to help here. The song is called “Ten Years From Now” and I just put it together last night. In particular, I want to illustrate just the 8-measure Intro pattern that I used. If you listen to just that much, you can hear the piano part for measures 1-4 is pretty much untouched from the stock version phrase. Then at measure 5-8, I did MIDI editing at the DAW, and I took a portion where the piano was playing some other bit of melody line, and I modified it to fit my own melody line. It’s just a few notes, but it makes the Intro more unique to the song, and gives the listener a peek at the melody that begins at the verse with the vocals. So to clarify, the fact that EZKeys is in MIDI form, permits the making of modifications beyond just the chords in the EZKeys editor. You can use the MIDI editor in your DAW to go further, greatly adding to the originality of the sequence.
Because EZKeys is such a powerful tool in stand-alone mode, I’m hoping they’ll add this MIDI editing function right in the EZKeys editor for a version 2. I think that would be a great enhancement, to be able to do all that in a piano track even before having to open the DAW!
All the best –
John
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
I agree with Joe’s observations regarding the need to watch the flow and the chord structure – I like the wording in your phrase “..in which several chords are laying in”. This is how I think of it as well. There is a challenge, when taking the basic sequence that most closely fits the “style” that your composition needs – you want to keep the flow of the changes being made to conform it into your own unique melody line, while trying to “fit” those changes in with the existing chord structure. At times, you feel you have to go “outside” or above or below, the given structure and it can get difficult then, to make that change sound “natural”.
Sometimes I’ve had better results at this by splitting the problem area, removing a particular “problematic” chord, and locating another one I can copy/paste in, that HAS a better-matching chord (i.e. note arrangement) and corresponding note progression – then when I make my chord change it doesn’t often have to require an octave change or a change far enough “out” that it doesn’t sound natural in the progression. I may not be expressing this very well because I’m also still a very new EZKeys user, but it seems to me that these kinds of steps are the real “meat -n- potatoes” of why this app is so very cool. It’s the ability to let you begin with a great-sounding sample but then alter it to your own unique melody needs.
And I also share the concern Joe stated (so I want to add my own vote as well) – if you try to automate this kind of thing, it *could* result in a ver 2 that some of us would view as a negative factor in the creative flow – so if that’s something being looked into, at least make it a user-toggle feature that we can use or not use, as an option. I’d hate to lose the kind of functionality that this version has in some of what I feel are the most creative aspects of the app.
I’ve tried to think of particular areas within EZKeys that I’d love to recommend for a ver 2 – and it’s tough. The ONLY thing I’d love on my wish-list for an EZKeys2, is a built-in MIDI editor because when I get to the note-level need to make changes, then I must import the phrase into my DAW to tweak it at that MIDI note level. Otherwise, I am content to work right in stand-alone mode all day long composing an entire song piano track, only opening the DAW when it’s time to drag the track into a song project, to add other tracks, FX, and do the mix. EZKeys is a great app, much more than a great plug-in, it’s a really powerful stand-alone creative composing tool. And while it may be only a version 1.x.x, it’s got incredible features and functionality.
John D.
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
Agreed. In terms of precedent, this example has got to be one of the worst-ever cases across the entire industry. If this is how “similarity” is being weighted in any copyright judgement, it will as you pointed out, really threaten to destroy creativity in songwriting. I too, wonder why Beato WASN’T asked to be a professional expert to help explain this stuff to what must be a very musically-ignorant group of people who were involved. Perhaps there is more to come out that we don’t know about yet behind the scenes but, seems the damage is done, regardless. And we should all be concerned about it.
John D. 91220
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
I really enjoyed Rick Beato’s video “Has Every Song Been Written” and several of his others – he’s a great musician and the points he’s making are really important. (and listening to them both take turns playing those beautiful riffs, wow!) Further searches I did including many cited examples of music copyright infringements with court rulings, make very interesting reading. I bumped into a series of articles along the way, called “Music Law 101…” and these are produced by some legal experts, at the bottom of the article it states:
“The Music Law 101 series is provided by Coe W. Ramsey and Amanda M. Whorton of the law firm Brooks, Pierce, McLendon, Humphrey & Leonard LLP. Brooks Pierce provides sophisticated and strategic counsel to a wide variety of clients in the entertainment industry, including artists, musicians, songwriters, record producers.. . . “ The link to this particular article is here:
https://blog.reverbnation.com/2018/08/16/music-law-101-copyright-infringement-fair-use/
I think all of this is good for any of us that compose/create music especially in these days of using such tech-tools and samples, sequences, loops – and it just behooves us all to continue to educate ourselves as much as possible so that we can hopefully avoid any troubles if/when we move our own music into a published, commercial environment. A highlight of this article was learning what two key points are (still) used in determining a copyright infringement:
To establish copyright infringement, you must establish that you own a valid copyright in the work and that:
The work has been copied; and
The copy is “substantially similar” to the protectable elements of the original work.
The article goes into further detail about how Courts evaluate that “substantial similarity” and makes for some interesting reading.
John (D.) #92210 :-))
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
John B., and John R., thanks for the responses – I hadn’t had a chance to get back here and report till now, but yesterday I did a fair amount of research, what I did was look up the individual End-User License Agreements for all the major loops producers I have known of and done business with over the past few years. As I mentioned they are not all the same, but the majority DO support the full “royalty free usage” as WE are understanding it (that is for both commercial and non-commercial use), pretty much as our Toontrack Adviser mentioned above. So we know that Toontrack is fine as well as I checked ProducerLoops and several others (I don’t have my notes handy at the moment but will provide a list shortly). As I mentioned before, the Elastik German-made loops outfit is also pretty much on board, their wording is just a bit more detailed and they specifically mention not to use loops on an “as is” basis but strongly encourage the “modification” of loops as a means to “further distance your work from the original”. This is not negative for us, really, as we all should be trying to do exactly that. So I think we can all feel confident about using loops (be them audio or MIDI) from reliable sources that clearly specify the usage to include production, commercial use as John R. stated above, clearly not for sale or redistribution as is but used in context of our work in songwriting creation.
It may seem strange to us that for instance, any 2 – 3 of us (or more) COULD theoretically have the same or basically the same, piano introduction or ending from an EZKeys session, (I think it’s much more difficult to recognize an identical drum intro?) but what is supposed to be important is the ways our individual melodies in verse and chorus etc, will branch off and thereby have plenty of uniqueness to them. At least that’s how I’m understanding things as we now leave off (hopefully) on the issue. I’m much more eager now at this point, to join in discussions of EZDrummer2 and EZKeys – specific comments of features, fun discoveries, solutions to any issues, and the like! Let’s play ball! Happy recording.
John D. (sheesh, too many Johns around here?!) Might as well assign numbers!
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
Follow-up to the topic of Copyrights, and can we make commercial use of songs that we create using royalty-free loops? I was searching the web on this subject area and noted a relevant article (and pretty current, dated Feb 2018) on the Magix.com site on the use of Music Maker loops. They state the following points in the article (in their FAQ listing) as such, and here’s a link:
http://magazine.magix.com/en/commercial-use-of-music/
“To put it simply: If you are using sounds or loops from Music Maker or Music Maker Jam for commercial purposes, you need permission from MAGIX to do so. To make this process as easy as possible, you can easily purchase Audio Pro licenses for commercial use online. ”
“These (loops) are created by professional musicians and developed and recorded exclusively in the MAGIX studios. Copyright, which protects intellectual property, applies to these. Although the loops and sounds are the property of MAGIX, they may be used for commercial purposes upon the payment of license fees. . . . ”
OK so, at least in the use of the loops from Magix Studios, this is how THEY are stating the issue of commercial use of material built with their loops. I’d love to hear from a Toontrack Rep on whether they have anything like this or what particular guidelines they have on use of their loops IF or WHEN an artist wants to go into “commercial use” with his own song, if it includes use of any of the EZ-x loops?
As I stated in my earlier post, we may all want to be cautious about making the distinction of creating a song with loops for NON-commercial use, verses the sudden difference when we reach a point where we want to do something commercially, with that finished song product. The Magix link above also includes some details about the categories of licensing and costs, but to me it doesn’t read very clearly. If we have any Magix Music Maker loops users out there perhaps they can offer more. But in general, we may be looking at the need to dig in and find out a lot more about the “commercial use” aspect of our song writing if we want to go any further with it than our own DAW systems or personal websites. Say, anybody know Taylor Swift’s email address, surely SHE “has some people” who would know about this stuff!?? HaHa Happy recording everyone!
(just don’t try to sell it without being REALLY sure…! ) John D.
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
John B: good to hear back from you! Your workflow seems very nearly identical to my own, and the concerns of working with loops in constructing original compositions I think, is a very valid point of discussion. Regardless of whether we ever sell anything or make any large sum of royalties, that doesn’t mean any of us can’t be brought into some legal action by someone who feels their own composition was infringed upon (whether a valid claim or not, who wants to be dragged through a legal process and then we have to dig into every nook and cranny of how we constructed our song…)
Your process describes exactly what I am doing. I don’t think that means that there can’t be certain segments that can’t stay the same as the original. Since we started this thread, I looked back and reviewed the patterns I used in approx 10 songs now since I’ve started using EZKeys, and it seems that it’s in the Intro and the Ending sequences that I’ve used nearly identical patterns here and there just because it happened to exactly fit the rhythm, style, and chord progression that I needed to lead the song off with (or close it). But once I got to verse and chorus, I find that about the only aspect that I search for are sequences that have the right “feel”, the right style in the tempo that I’m writing the song in – once I have that, then I can change lots of chords and even go into the MIDI and adjust individual notes if needed. Then as far as I understand it, once we drag the sequences together and meet it up with our (original) melody, it takes on our own uniqueness. So we should also realize that if we had to defend our song’s unique composition in a court, (and I’m not claiming any expertise on this issue, especially with what’s going on nowadays), it seems to me that the burden is more on the prosecutor to prove that there’s a sufficient degree of “copying” to support a copyright infringement. And I don’t see how that could be justified given the processes that we are outlining here – there may be a couple of measures the same, yes, if we utilized the same original EZKeys sequence. But that in itself should not ever be sufficient to justify an infringement suit – because once we begin the editing process to match our own original melody line, everything changes and the song should be quite different in many characteristics, than anyone else’s.
It’s an interesting point of discussion also, that various “loop” vendors in their USLA (user licensing agreement statements) are NOT all exactly the same. MOST of the ones I’ve seen and used, are general and perhaps even a bit vague, in their agreement that as long as we use the loops in our own compositions and we are NOT repacking them into a library for sale in any way, we’re free to use them. Period. Whether we copy them as is or whether we modify. Several of the ones I use have a further statement saying that the intent is for us to “use layers, and various editing modifications” in order to keep our original works “sufficiently unique” as an end-product. One vendor I looked into, Elastik, has a statement that they expect that we will NOT use a loop “as is” but will use the tools in their editing plug-in to MAKE the loop unique as an end result, and then insert into our original composition. So I thought that was a bit of a different stance on this issue. So I do think it’s key when working with loops, that we should be insuring that our song if using loops, has at least a certain DEGREE of uniqueness to it. I can’t speak as to what degree copyright lawyers have to go by these days – things are so much more complex now than ever before due to the kinds of digital tools we have available. I wish we had some musicians here who were also copyright lawyers and could give us some current legal pointers on the issue of loop usage! But until we can find something more definitive, I think our own guidelines have to suffice.
Up above, another user Bryan, made a good point. That we use real players in any final recordings. In other words, before any of us go to publishing and let our works be signed on to a contract deal, we or they, would NOT use the recording WE made anyway. All tracks containing such loops would be replaced by real performers and that would not be a direct copy of the original loops, it would be introducing live playing differences & nuances, perhaps even in slightly different styles & instrumentation. So this would be further steps taken to insure that such a direct copy of even a few measures of a loop, would not be an issue. But at my level at least, here I am uploading my “never completely finished” songs (lol) onto my own musician website. Loops or not, I consider that the works are original in the ways that will be important to defend I guess, if needed. On another note, what exactly constitutes a work to be “published” is another good look-up. The copyright office has some guidelines. The type of sales, the type of medium sold, and several other areas of concerns of even posting songs up on a website, all come into play. Another good topic for discussion on down the road…!
Hey, your mention of the Scaler plug-in got me looking, because I’ve been on a kick to better organize and use MIDI especially, such as EZKeys does. As a Studio One 4 Pro user, (I switched from Sonar when Studio One 4 came out), I’ve been totally impressed with how it handles all kinds of audio loops and I’ve invested heavily into many acoustic guitar bundles… MIDI just recently. Using EZKeys makes it easy to work in MIDI and I also EZDrummer2 which I rely on now as well. The workflow with tools like this is just amazing. Scaler looks like a very possible new addition to my toolkit plugins, thanks!
Oh one final thing, I made mention before someplace, that what I found most difficult in using EZKeys was how easy it WAS to make major modifications to the sequences, and then that presented a problem – what if I had to go back in at some later time and re-create that exact same sequence? At first, I started a text file and just write down where I got each segment – Intro, Verse, etc – and then what my own resulting chord changes were. But then I realized, how can I account for chords that occur prior to the next measure or several chords within one measure…. finally I began using a graphic screen capture as I went, and I build up a sheet I call my “EZ Keys Map” for each song I build a piano track for. I’m attempting to attach that here just to show anyone what one idea is in order to solve this issue. It does take a little bit from the workflow of course, to stop at each phrase I correct before racing on, but it does result in a sheet that would allow me to go back if I had to, and re-create it. I use rich text format file being a windows user. I don’t know what mac uses, sorry. Happy recording!
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
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