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pumpkinking
Participant
Topics Started: 7
Replies Created: 95
Has Thanked: 17
Been Thanked: 36
pumpkinkingHere is what I wrote down, as a guide for myself, about 2 years ago (apologies for brevity or lack of clarity – ask Qs if it is not clear):
Start with SD3 core default kit
Enable midi mapping per your kit (I have two modules with custom mapping)
Add Instrument – pick a hihat from the instrument list
Look at what articulations are enabled on stock hihat
Look at articulations for additional hihat, and start by enabling same set (if midi mapped)
Any articulations not midi mapped need to be added to the midi map (midi mapping panel
Look at midi map for closed/open pedal for def hit (21/23 or A-1/B-1 for me)
Look at the default midi assignment for open/closed pedal for second foot controller (10/103 or A#-2/G6 for me)
In drum brain or s/w config, change pedal open/close midi notes to match those in SD3 (98 – tip & 55 – edge)
Enable trigger midi notes in addl instrument midi map
Enable pedal CC control midi note (I used CC5)
In drum brain or s/w config change pedal CC output to CC5
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Thanked by: Visual Drummer and RoC1909pumpkinkingI like to think of SDXs like this: I am walking into a recording venue, and the production crew has setup a specific kit configuration for me to play. So, I am playing someone else’s kit with a particular sound in mind. It is tempting to think I’m playing my kit made to sound like another one, but that will lead to the frustration that you describe. Initially, I tried to add instruments to assign each of my ekit triggers when the SDX base kit was smaller, but I have since stopped that because of the effort involved and how that effort was not repaid in improving the experience of using the SDX.
Here is a good example: in the Legacy SDX, Eddie Kramer setup Charlie Watts’ kit with one rack tom and one floor tom (presumably as it was done during some of the original recording sessions). This setup will force a particular playing style that will in turn give you sticking and sound in good alignment with Stones tracks. If you instead try to fill that Legacy kit out to 2 rack toms and 2 floor toms, yes it might match your ekit better and allow you to play more uniformly across all of the SDXs, but it will produce a different result than was intended by the Kramer/Watts setup.
So I have since learned to choose presets not only based on sound, but also on the configuration I would like to use. As an example: I have two kick drums in my ekit, and there are a few SDXs that natively support 2 kicks (D&D/Death and Area 33 are the two I have) . While I have a custom setup with the SD3 Core that uses both kicks (one through an added instrument), really I get a better experience with I pick one of the SDX presets that has both in place.
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Thanked by: Paul Andrew and BradpumpkinkingYou can actually setup a second and completely independent hi-hat in a single instance of SD3 as an additional instrument. I have done this successfully, although it took me some time to figure it out. Where I really got hung up was finding enough available midi notes to support the numerous articulations for hi-hats, and then painstakingly assigning them. I took some notes when I did this and I’ll dig them up. Ultimately it was just too difficult to work the second hihat into every SDX I have so I abandoned it.
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Thanked by: Visual DrummerpumpkinkingFor a “load and play” eDrum experience, I find that Legacy, Hansa, Fields and Hitmaker are the best. Some of the presets sound good to me without tweaks. I like the sound of the other post-SD3 SDXs but they take some fiddling when used with eDrums, to my ear anyway.
pumpkinkingAn audition mixer channel is actually an interesting idea for a future enhancement of SD3 (or 4).
pumpkinkingI did this on the day Sonoma was released. No issues in using SD3 and Logic as I do normally. I’m a casual eDrummer, so really just loading my presents and playing, not exploring every feature looking for issues.
pumpkinkingAs Mark writes, the midi mapping is saved with a project, so if you update your maps for an ekit change, you will need to reload the appropriate updated map after loading an older project. Can then just re-save the project with the updated map.
I have created maps for every SDX room so it is very clear what needs to be loaded for a given project.
It can get a little frustrating not knowing which older projects have been refreshed with the newer midi maps, but you can just always reload the midi when opening a project and that should ensure it is always the latest.
pumpkinkingThanks for taking the time to reply. I appreciate your time.
I do understand the distinction between MIDI In/E-drums on one hand and the MIDI notes in the MIDI Mapping Property Box, where only the latter is ‘destructive’ re: Grooves functionality. I also understand that custom MIDI In/E-drums configurations can be saved as presets, remain active upon library changes, and can be saved as part of a default project state.
My concern is that I would like to maximize the degree of MIDI compatibility between different libraries. For instance, for quick auditioning within my DAW I would like to be able to drop a MIDI file currently on Track 1, Kit A into Track 2, Kit B and minimize the number of mismatches. These mismatches are possible because different kits have different pieces and articulations, and therefore sample x on CC 125 of Kit A might not match sample y on CC 125 of Kit B–that is, the MIDI Mapping Property Boxes of different libraries are not identical (even if similar).
The possibility of these mismatches left me with two options:
- accept a more limited degree of MIDI compatibility between different libraries (undesirable for my purposes);
- reconfigure the MIDI Mapping Property Box assignments to maximize compatibility between libraries
I took the second option by taking my largest, most diverse library (Superior 3 Metalworks, for example), remapped the ‘base’ MIDI assignments, and then took my other libraries and ‘fit’ their assignments into this master map. Even though this means more complex kits like Metalworks are not downwards compatible, all simpler kits are upwards compatible: every sample will match 1-to-1 (eg. ride bow = ride bow = ride bow).
Now, maybe I’m still confused. I surely know this took me a lot of time (not least because MIDI Mapping Property Box assignments cannot be saved independently and then imported into new libraries). But I cannot assume I’m the only one who’s gone this far to maximize compatibility between libraries…
Hi. I think what you’re looking for is a way to have mappings for all your SDX libraries such that incoming midi should play the same pieces across all kits (within the range of pieces in the kits themselves). This is precisely what a e-drummer does when using multiple SDXs and a single ekit setup. I have spent the time to create custom edrum midi maps for all of the libraries across all of the SDXs I use. As you suggest, I started with a SD3 core kit default midi assignments – aligned my edrum module midi out values with that (meaning my SD3 core mapping is only for additional instruments), and then treated each SDX library as a tweak from that core mapping.
Yes this took a while to do, and yes each time I change my edrum kit I have to tweak every single custom mapping, and yes I do wish there was a programmatic way to do this (like through a CSV file or something). But that said, now that I have set it up this way, it allows me to spend less time fiddling with settings and more time playing drums.
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Thanked by: MiscreantpumpkinkingSo I played around a bit more and what I am finding is that, the learn button does not work all the time. If I add the cymbal instrument then go to the midi settings and hit my bell, then just select the ride bell, it works from there. no need to learn.
Whenever I’m trying to map ekit midi with accuracy, I do it manually (ie not with “learn”). Using the learn is great for quick tweaks and trying out different ekit mods, but I have found it is not a reliable enough UI for precision mapping – mainly because it is “click then trigger” style UI, as opposed to the manual approach which is “trigger then click” so you know what you’re getting.
pumpkinkingHard to follow exactly what is going on, but I will suggest that you look at either the “midi monitor” box in the right side of the main SD3 window (might have to show it in the pulldown), or the midi analyzer at the bottom left of the “Midi in/e-drums” window. That shows you a log of what midi signals are received, not just the last one received. It was hard to see in your video, but it seems like your bell is triggering two notes: 51 (mapped to 30) and 80. Not sure what 80 is but maybe it is causing an undesired sound. This could be due to crosstalk across your kit or something, especially if you’re using various modules for processing that will not cancel crosstalk across the whole kit (eDrumIn modules, even multiples, will do this canceling).
Often times I see weird things in the monitor that I was not expecting but they are not the most recent hit so you have to look into the history a little (this is my I like the monitor box as it has a scrollable history). Also the history grabs things like control change (CC) and aftertouch (AT) that the mapping box will not show you real-time.
You can also bring up the midi layout window (Help->Show MIDI mapping layout) and it will light up triggers real-time as you hit them,. You can see the whole 128 midi assignments in one window and watch them light up as you hit them. You do not see the full names but it is enough usually.
pumpkinkingThis can happen if two triggers are assigned the same midi value at the module. Use the midi monitor and hit the bell and tom triggers and see what midi values they produce. If they are different then just map the bell midi value to the bell instrument articulation you want it to use. If they are the same, then you’ll have to change the midi value produced in the module for that trigger.
Midi monitor can really be your friend in these cases.
pumpkinkingI have merged two Alesis kits (Crimson II and Surge) and added 8 lemon cymbals and the current setup has 20 individual pieces. All works fine in SD3, but I’ve made two significant changes: 1) I abandoned the Alesis modules in favor of two software controllable eDrumin modules (much faster to config IMO and more controllable), and 2) I do not use all trigger points from all pieces (for example, most toms do not have rim triggers configured). This second point helps maintain a large number of playable pieces while keeping the MIDI mapping burden down. I do have the most important pieces fully mapped and configured (snare, hihat, ride, etc).
Reply To: How to setup SD3 with a large ekit using two Alesis Strike Modules? version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS Ventura (13)So for my kit as pictured, how many edrumins would I need? my total pad count including cymbals is 30. but I too don’t use rims on toms so they are all split. so it’s 2 toms per TRS. The cymbals are all using 2 zones so I can have choke/edge/bow. The ride is actually using a tom port for the bell b/c I was having issues with the 3 zone ride working properly on the strike so I sorta gave up on that and it works much better as a single zone. this might change with the edrumin which would free up that one port for one of the toms. So:
I’m removing the extra tom so there will be 6 of those. and probably selling the set of E-jam blocks. so I think 2 edrumin 8s should be enough:
6 toms divided by 2 zones per tom = 3 ports
8 octobans will need 4 ports
then that 8th port can handle the 2 zone snare
So then the 2nd edrumin 8 would handle 6 cymbals including the 3 zone ride and the kick + hi hat. So I guess I will be short one for the cowbell. Dang! Oh well, close enough. lol then I’m cutting costs + the 8 is going back in stock next month! (yay!) whereas the 10 won’t be back until March 2024. (boooo!)
- The post has been modified 2 years, 6 months ago by bpjacobsen"> 2 times, last modified 2 years, 6 months ago by bpjacobsen.
You’re going about this the right way. I did not read all of what you had there, but enough to see you have the right process. Map it out on paper first – helps figuring out what needs to be single zone vs dual.
I’ll say my kit evolves often as I add pieces, upgrade cymbals etc. I currently have 5 3-zone cymbals which take 1.5 or 2 TRS cables each (I say 1.5 because you can play some games with sharing the second connector that involve solder – see the eDrumIn forums for how to do that). So although I have 20 pieces, many of the connections are non-standard (TRS split between two pieces or 2-inputs for a 3-zone piece). Anyway, I have filled all 20 connections on the 2 eDrumIn modules I have and have invested in many splitters. You might be able to make 2 8-input modules support what you have. Probably the best place to start.
pumpkinkingI have merged two Alesis kits (Crimson II and Surge) and added 8 lemon cymbals and the current setup has 20 individual pieces. All works fine in SD3, but I’ve made two significant changes: 1) I abandoned the Alesis modules in favor of two software controllable eDrumin modules (much faster to config IMO and more controllable), and 2) I do not use all trigger points from all pieces (for example, most toms do not have rim triggers configured). This second point helps maintain a large number of playable pieces while keeping the MIDI mapping burden down. I do have the most important pieces fully mapped and configured (snare, hihat, ride, etc).
pumpkinkingYou might be able to achieve the original objective if your e-kit modules support setting the midi channel value. I have successfully done what you are asking by setting one e-kit module to produce midi with channel 10 and the other channel 11. Then in my DAW I created two SD3 tracks with midi channel filters to route the midi notes accordingly based on channel value. You can then setup two independent SD3 kits that should work at the same time, each being driven from a separate e-kit module.
You might be able to do the same with two instances of standalone SD3 as it has a midi channel filter as well, but I’ve not tried to do this.
Reply To: Connect both an e-drum-kit and Roland SPD Octapad to Superior Drummer 3? version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS Ventura (13)Can’t do two instances of SD3 in standalone, at least on a Mac. Doesn’t matter that you can set the MIDI channel to one of your choice. So it’s in a daw. Period.
Reply To: Connect both an e-drum-kit and Roland SPD Octapad to Superior Drummer 3? version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS High Sierra (10.13)
Hi Jack – I’d never tried this but read it was possible. This thread get me interested so I checked it out. On a Mac from the terminal, you can use the command “open -n” to start a second instance of an app. Like this for SD3 (where one standalone is already running):
open -n /Applications/Toontrack/Superior\ Drummer\ 3.app
Just tried it, and it started a second standalone SD3. When the second started, it warned about the prev session not shutting down correctly (indicating there might be only a single session log and hinting at possible corruption so YMMV), but I just hit cancel and all seemed fine. I even set them up with different MIDI channels and tested the mixed kit routing, and it worked.
Thanks – Joe
pumpkinkingYou might be able to achieve the original objective if your e-kit modules support setting the midi channel value. I have successfully done what you are asking by setting one e-kit module to produce midi with channel 10 and the other channel 11. Then in my DAW I created two SD3 tracks with midi channel filters to route the midi notes accordingly based on channel value. You can then setup two independent SD3 kits that should work at the same time, each being driven from a separate e-kit module.
You might be able to do the same with two instances of standalone SD3 as it has a midi channel filter as well, but I’ve not tried to do this.
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Thanked by: Johan DoveliusNo products in the cart.
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