pumpkinking
Participant
Topics Started: 5
Replies Created: 84
Has Thanked: 12
Been Thanked: 32
pumpkinkingI have a setup for this that uses a foot switch note bank changer in my eDrumin modules (cycles through sending all the ekit midi notes with one of 4 different midi channels: 8, 9, 10 or 11) and then setup Logic with four SD3 tracks, each with a midi channel filter set to one of the four selected with the eDrumin note banks.
So I can seamlessly cycle through 4 different configured SD3 instances while actively playing with just toggling the foot switch. Works very well.
requires the ability to change midi channel at the module, though, so might not work for all setups. But maybe some DAW configuration could do something similar.
2
Thanked by: marcelo_pe and BRMpercpumpkinkingOK I finally figured out the problem. I had moved my splash to the same mount as the tom so it’s cross triggering. Seems like no matter how I adjust the threshold in edrum, it still triggers the tom. So I either need to acquire ‘yet another’ stand to separate it Or I need to figure out how to dampen the stand so that hits on the splash don’t vibrate the stand and trigger the tom. I took the boom with the splash off the stand and hit it and it did not trigger the tom at all. If I just even slightly tap the top of the stand/mount where the splash boom attaches, it triggers the 42 note which is the tom. Any suggestions on how to make this work so I don’t have to spend money yet again on a stand?
- This post was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by bpjacobsen.
A couple of things to consider…
I believe you have two eDrumin modules, make sure they are connected in series so the crosstalk cancelation works for all triggers even spread across modules. I have two ED10s in series and I get no crosstalk (although I can see cross hits in the raw trigger data for sure).
In your video, when you hit the splash cymbal, it seemed like it did not move. You might loosen the cymbal so that it can rebound from the stick. If the cymbal is completely rigid, it will transfer more of the vibration down the stand.
And lastly, make sure that all of your triggers are connected only by their mounting, and none of them are resting against or touching the frame or another trigger. I did have an issue where tom pads were touching each other (it can be hard to pack a bunch of triggers together on a rack without them touching), and I was getting a little crosstalk between the two triggers that were touching. When you have a single mount point for a trigger, the vibration leaked into the rack is less than it is when you have multiple contact points.
oh yea – one last thing: I have a double cymbal stand that is separate from the tom rack and I have it firmly attached to the rack with Velcro but I did make sure to avoid metal-on-metal by inserting some wraps of Velcro between the rack and the stand. I found that metal-on-metal was a good way to get crosstalk.
Hope this helps and good luck!
pumpkinkingHave you confirmed that you have no mapping set for these midi notes? You can open the midi map, hit each trigger and watch the midi log to see what the incoming value is and how it is being mapped. I believe midi notes that are modified by mapping show up as green.
pumpkinkingSeems like a sensible way to approach the whole SDX experience!
As you and others have pointed out, I think the lesson learned for me from this is that I need to be more selective in the future and find SDXs that match my kit’s hardware more closely. I didn’t realize that until it was too late, unfortunately. An expensive lesson to learn, but if it leads to the kind of drums I’m looking for in my songs, it will have been worth it. I’m thinking the Hitmaker SDX will be my next purchase since Hugh Padgham is the architect of that one. He’s worked with so many of my favorite artists creating exactly the kind of sound I’m looking for. I’m familiar with his name, but never really noticed he’s worked with that many of my favorite artists.
In regards to your comment about having two kick drums in your ekit, I’m a bit confused as to why, tho. Do you use two different kick drum sounds in your songs? Or maybe you’re not a fan of double bass drum pedals?
Hi Paul – personally I use Hitmaker the most these days. My ekit has 5 hi/rack toms and 2 floor toms, and that really matches Hitmaker well. Doesn’t hurt that I like to cover Phil/Genesis tracks also. Fields and Area33 are the other two that I spend some time with, although it has taken effort to find a good sound with Area33. Possibly the Area33 Origin would be more out-of-the-box – I’ve not splurged on that one (yet).
As for the double kick – I like the option to have two different kick sizes playable at the same time, although I do not often use it that way. Ginger Baker used a setup like this, and that always struck me as a unique sound. Truthfully, the second kick trigger was a by-product of merging two Alesis kits, but I’ve turned it into a feature. I even bought a lefty double kick pedal so that I could play either kick from my right (dominant) foot.
Cheers.
pumpkinkingHere is what I wrote down, as a guide for myself, about 2 years ago (apologies for brevity or lack of clarity – ask Qs if it is not clear):
Start with SD3 core default kit
Enable midi mapping per your kit (I have two modules with custom mapping)
Add Instrument – pick a hihat from the instrument list
Look at what articulations are enabled on stock hihat
Look at articulations for additional hihat, and start by enabling same set (if midi mapped)
Any articulations not midi mapped need to be added to the midi map (midi mapping panel
Look at midi map for closed/open pedal for def hit (21/23 or A-1/B-1 for me)
Look at the default midi assignment for open/closed pedal for second foot controller (10/103 or A#-2/G6 for me)
In drum brain or s/w config, change pedal open/close midi notes to match those in SD3 (98 – tip & 55 – edge)
Enable trigger midi notes in addl instrument midi map
Enable pedal CC control midi note (I used CC5)
In drum brain or s/w config change pedal CC output to CC5
2
Thanked by: Visual Drummer and RoC1909pumpkinkingI like to think of SDXs like this: I am walking into a recording venue, and the production crew has setup a specific kit configuration for me to play. So, I am playing someone else’s kit with a particular sound in mind. It is tempting to think I’m playing my kit made to sound like another one, but that will lead to the frustration that you describe. Initially, I tried to add instruments to assign each of my ekit triggers when the SDX base kit was smaller, but I have since stopped that because of the effort involved and how that effort was not repaid in improving the experience of using the SDX.
Here is a good example: in the Legacy SDX, Eddie Kramer setup Charlie Watts’ kit with one rack tom and one floor tom (presumably as it was done during some of the original recording sessions). This setup will force a particular playing style that will in turn give you sticking and sound in good alignment with Stones tracks. If you instead try to fill that Legacy kit out to 2 rack toms and 2 floor toms, yes it might match your ekit better and allow you to play more uniformly across all of the SDXs, but it will produce a different result than was intended by the Kramer/Watts setup.
So I have since learned to choose presets not only based on sound, but also on the configuration I would like to use. As an example: I have two kick drums in my ekit, and there are a few SDXs that natively support 2 kicks (D&D/Death and Area 33 are the two I have) . While I have a custom setup with the SD3 Core that uses both kicks (one through an added instrument), really I get a better experience with I pick one of the SDX presets that has both in place.
2
Thanked by: Paul Andrew and BradpumpkinkingYou can actually setup a second and completely independent hi-hat in a single instance of SD3 as an additional instrument. I have done this successfully, although it took me some time to figure it out. Where I really got hung up was finding enough available midi notes to support the numerous articulations for hi-hats, and then painstakingly assigning them. I took some notes when I did this and I’ll dig them up. Ultimately it was just too difficult to work the second hihat into every SDX I have so I abandoned it.
1
Thanked by: Visual DrummerpumpkinkingFor a “load and play” eDrum experience, I find that Legacy, Hansa, Fields and Hitmaker are the best. Some of the presets sound good to me without tweaks. I like the sound of the other post-SD3 SDXs but they take some fiddling when used with eDrums, to my ear anyway.
pumpkinkingAn audition mixer channel is actually an interesting idea for a future enhancement of SD3 (or 4).
pumpkinkingI did this on the day Sonoma was released. No issues in using SD3 and Logic as I do normally. I’m a casual eDrummer, so really just loading my presents and playing, not exploring every feature looking for issues.
pumpkinkingAs Mark writes, the midi mapping is saved with a project, so if you update your maps for an ekit change, you will need to reload the appropriate updated map after loading an older project. Can then just re-save the project with the updated map.
I have created maps for every SDX room so it is very clear what needs to be loaded for a given project.
It can get a little frustrating not knowing which older projects have been refreshed with the newer midi maps, but you can just always reload the midi when opening a project and that should ensure it is always the latest.
pumpkinkingThanks for taking the time to reply. I appreciate your time.
I do understand the distinction between MIDI In/E-drums on one hand and the MIDI notes in the MIDI Mapping Property Box, where only the latter is ‘destructive’ re: Grooves functionality. I also understand that custom MIDI In/E-drums configurations can be saved as presets, remain active upon library changes, and can be saved as part of a default project state.
My concern is that I would like to maximize the degree of MIDI compatibility between different libraries. For instance, for quick auditioning within my DAW I would like to be able to drop a MIDI file currently on Track 1, Kit A into Track 2, Kit B and minimize the number of mismatches. These mismatches are possible because different kits have different pieces and articulations, and therefore sample x on CC 125 of Kit A might not match sample y on CC 125 of Kit B–that is, the MIDI Mapping Property Boxes of different libraries are not identical (even if similar).
The possibility of these mismatches left me with two options:
- accept a more limited degree of MIDI compatibility between different libraries (undesirable for my purposes);
- reconfigure the MIDI Mapping Property Box assignments to maximize compatibility between libraries
I took the second option by taking my largest, most diverse library (Superior 3 Metalworks, for example), remapped the ‘base’ MIDI assignments, and then took my other libraries and ‘fit’ their assignments into this master map. Even though this means more complex kits like Metalworks are not downwards compatible, all simpler kits are upwards compatible: every sample will match 1-to-1 (eg. ride bow = ride bow = ride bow).
Now, maybe I’m still confused. I surely know this took me a lot of time (not least because MIDI Mapping Property Box assignments cannot be saved independently and then imported into new libraries). But I cannot assume I’m the only one who’s gone this far to maximize compatibility between libraries…
Hi. I think what you’re looking for is a way to have mappings for all your SDX libraries such that incoming midi should play the same pieces across all kits (within the range of pieces in the kits themselves). This is precisely what a e-drummer does when using multiple SDXs and a single ekit setup. I have spent the time to create custom edrum midi maps for all of the libraries across all of the SDXs I use. As you suggest, I started with a SD3 core kit default midi assignments – aligned my edrum module midi out values with that (meaning my SD3 core mapping is only for additional instruments), and then treated each SDX library as a tweak from that core mapping.
Yes this took a while to do, and yes each time I change my edrum kit I have to tweak every single custom mapping, and yes I do wish there was a programmatic way to do this (like through a CSV file or something). But that said, now that I have set it up this way, it allows me to spend less time fiddling with settings and more time playing drums.
1
Thanked by: MiscreantpumpkinkingSo I played around a bit more and what I am finding is that, the learn button does not work all the time. If I add the cymbal instrument then go to the midi settings and hit my bell, then just select the ride bell, it works from there. no need to learn.
Whenever I’m trying to map ekit midi with accuracy, I do it manually (ie not with “learn”). Using the learn is great for quick tweaks and trying out different ekit mods, but I have found it is not a reliable enough UI for precision mapping – mainly because it is “click then trigger” style UI, as opposed to the manual approach which is “trigger then click” so you know what you’re getting.
pumpkinkingHard to follow exactly what is going on, but I will suggest that you look at either the “midi monitor” box in the right side of the main SD3 window (might have to show it in the pulldown), or the midi analyzer at the bottom left of the “Midi in/e-drums” window. That shows you a log of what midi signals are received, not just the last one received. It was hard to see in your video, but it seems like your bell is triggering two notes: 51 (mapped to 30) and 80. Not sure what 80 is but maybe it is causing an undesired sound. This could be due to crosstalk across your kit or something, especially if you’re using various modules for processing that will not cancel crosstalk across the whole kit (eDrumIn modules, even multiples, will do this canceling).
Often times I see weird things in the monitor that I was not expecting but they are not the most recent hit so you have to look into the history a little (this is my I like the monitor box as it has a scrollable history). Also the history grabs things like control change (CC) and aftertouch (AT) that the mapping box will not show you real-time.
You can also bring up the midi layout window (Help->Show MIDI mapping layout) and it will light up triggers real-time as you hit them,. You can see the whole 128 midi assignments in one window and watch them light up as you hit them. You do not see the full names but it is enough usually.
pumpkinkingThis can happen if two triggers are assigned the same midi value at the module. Use the midi monitor and hit the bell and tom triggers and see what midi values they produce. If they are different then just map the bell midi value to the bell instrument articulation you want it to use. If they are the same, then you’ll have to change the midi value produced in the module for that trigger.
Midi monitor can really be your friend in these cases.
No products in the cart.
