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[pumpkinking]

Hi Folks, I was reading through this thread, and agreeing with Mark and Jack with regards to the comments on natural variation in playing style.  It got me thinking about how to visualize this.  I’m not going to hijack this thread or anything, but I wanted to share visuals of what the variation of natural e-drumming might look like.  I queued up a rock track and e-drummed along to it in SD3 while recording.  Then I exported the midi and wrote some Python to analyze the velocity variations on a per-instrument basis.  Given the genre of music, the snare, hi-hat and kick were dominant, and I was trying to be somewhat light-handed with the snare even with the louder hits.  Attached you can see a histogram of snare velocity values (the blue histogram) across the whole track (again these are my midi velocity values recorded while I was playing along – x-axis is snare velocity and y-axis is the number of hits at that velocity).  The histogram appears to have two peaks, one around 30 and one around 50, but you can see the spread is roughly 5-85.

However, what is more interesting, and relevant to this thread, is the red histogram.  This shows the velocity *change* from one hit to the next across the entire track (for the snare, on the x-axis, with the number of hits at that delta value on the y-axis).  Basically my variation in trigger velocity, whether intentional (ie transitioning from backbeat to ghost) or just my own inconsistency in maintaining consistent velocity (which is the point I’m trying to make here).  Notice the note-to-note velocity variation between hits, while most in the +/- 25 range, can vary up to +/- 50 (these larger ones are undoubtedly intentional transitions).  Interestingly I see a peak around +50, and not -50, which seems to imply to me I was consistent with my return to the backbeat from ghost/light notes, but not the other way around.

When I listen back to this drum track, it is not an award-winner, but it is obviously a live capture and not programmed.  I would argue that (and there are research publications that back this up) listening to music with natural percussion variation is more pleasing to the ear than programmed percussion lacking variation, or even programmed “random” variations that slot into bins.  That is not to say one is good and the other is bad (often discomfort in the listener is an effect to pursue), but that they are indeed discernible.

Anyway, hope this is of interest to someone, and happy holidays to all!

Operating system: macOS Tahoe (26)

• This post was modified 5 days, 5 hours ago by pumpkinking.

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Thanked by: Bear-Faced Cow and drumjack52

[pumpkinking]

Personally, I like the room dynamics of the Darkness kits in the pool for edrumming with headphones. And  as Jack mentioned, the kits are fairly versatile in both rooms, and the mic setups allow for a lot of variety.  I’ve used both rooms for rock, prog rock, jazz (the Death rides are worth a try).  I like the double kick setup in Death (I have two kick towers, and not many SDXs have two kicks), however they are a bit dampened for non-metal and need some work to bring them out more.

Reply To: DEATH & DARKNESS VS METAL MANIA version: 3.4.2
Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

[pumpkinking]

When I read your request, I thought “isn’t that what Core is?”

Everyone is different, and I personally lean toward the SDXs with more personality and variety.  What I do most is play the e-drums, I don’t record often and I try to minimize the time I’m at the kit with a mouse in my hand (I get enough of that 9-5). So the SDXs with more “terroir” (borrowing a wine term) appeal to me.  I can quickly flip through rooms/kits that I have tweaked based on my own biases (darker cymbals, deep snares, resonant kicks) but all sound very different due to room shape, mic placement, dampening/tuning, sound path, etc.  I’m not talking about presets, I’m talking about the sound of an SDX “room” even with the default kit loaded.  Case in point: when an SDX is recorded with a “corridor”, “stairwell” or other remotely-located mic, I like bringing a little bit in – it is a colorful room sound that sounds better and is easier to use than complex reverb effects (for me, anyway).

I don’t use Core much unless there is hardware I’d like to try and my pile of SDXs do not have it (rods/brushes are a reason, although between Decades and Jazz Sessions there are some interesting options).  I find Core to be well recorded, but lacking in a unique sound, and it requires work to get it there.

To each his own, and I’m not discounting your request, merely offering my perspective on why the producer SDXs tend to provide me with a good experience.  With the myriad options of kit pieces, brands/styles, kit tuning/dampening, mic placement/hardware, sound treatment, etc, any SDX that was aimed at showcasing the e-drum dynamics of a single kit would have to make concessions that would be good for some but not for others, IMO.

Reply To: SDX idea. E-Drummer focused “Virtual” drum kit. Modern Session Drummer? version: 3.4.1
Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

[pumpkinking]

Hi John – a little more information.  I’ve attached a new OH-R bounce where I have cranked up the channel gain and the bounce gain, and I think the effect is much more discernible on listening now.  I’ve looked at the spectrogram for both R and L OH channels, and I cannot identify anything specific, but this sound has a multi-frequency, square wave sound to it.  Zooming into the waveforms of the R channel during the decay, I can see some squaring of the waveforms, compared to the left, but it is very polychromic and hard to say anything is there conclusively.

Thanks, Joe

Reply To: Area 33 Origin – buzz in right channel OH version: 3.4.1
Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

[pumpkinking]

Hi John – thanks for responding.

Regarding Crash 4 position – see the attached screenshot – it shows Area 33 Origin default kit and the Crash 4 position is highlighted.  It is just to the right of the tam-tam in the kit image.

Regarding the buzz in the mp3 I attached – I’ll do a frequency analysis sometime today, but I was hoping it would be clearly audible in that clip.  I’ll work on isolating it some more.

Thanks,

Joe

 

Reply To: Area 33 Origin – buzz in right channel OH version: 3.4.1
Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

[pumpkinking]

I have done this in the past with multiple hi hat pedal CC channels.  It should work with snare zone CC as well.  In eDrumIn enable the positional CC for your 2nd snare, change the CC value to a free CC value (go to the SD3 midi map window and select “Show-> All -> CCs” and you can see which are currently unused).  Then in SD3, assign the Zone Control for that second snare as the CC value you just configured in eDrumIn and set the Zone Control to be the midi value of HIT in eDrumIn.  I have no free dual-zone slots on my setup or else I’d try it.

Reply To: using cc mode for positional sensing with SD3 and eDrumin on additional snares version: 3.4.0
Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

[pumpkinking]

You can set the project to be loaded on startup, which will include the custom midi map of your choice.

Reply To: Custom key map on startup? version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

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Thanked by: crossdrums

[pumpkinking]

You can certainly have multiple kits as individual tracks in your DAW and route the midi to capture a subset of each kit (I do this with channel assignments in the edrum module and track-level channel filters in my DAW).  However I typically do this when I want a large chunk of a kit, like all of the cymbals or toms.

To sub in a single piece from another kit and have it retain some or all of its sound you should look at the mic routing and mixer setup in the source kit.  Find out what mixer channels contribute to the overall sound of that piece and look for the effects and bleed settings that seem to contribute (auditioning these on/off or mute/solo helps).  Easier for direct-mic’d pieces like snare and kick but you might be able to get something close even for cymbals on overheads.

Reply To: Substituting drum pieces into drum presets version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

[pumpkinking]

I don’t know about “one map for all” since there can be a lot of variability between SDXs that makes that difficult, but maybe being able to set a default midi map for each SDX room.

Reply To: New E-drum MIDI preset needed for every SDX version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

[pumpkinking]

As Jord points out, the default Decades midi map has Floortom 2 center mapped to midi note 41/F1 out-of-the-box.  However, maybe you are in a non-default configuration for some reason.  If you have an unmapped note and you want to map it, follow these instructions: select the kit piece in the layout, go to the “MIDI Mapping” box on the right and select the articulation you want to map, click on the “3 line” icon that appears to the right of the articulation when you mouse over it, and pick an option for assigning it (Add, Learn or Add suggested).  If your midi map is already full, then you’ll potentially be changing an existing mapped note, and if so just make sure it is one you’re not using or are OK doing without.

I do hope that a future version of SD will make this particular workflow a little less click-intensive and maybe exploit the MIDI map available from the Help menu by making it interactive.

That said – I spend the time to get these dialed in for a given kit and then save the project and move on.

Reply To: Decades SDX – No Floor Tom 2 Center Articulation? version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

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Thanked by: Tom Conner

[pumpkinking]

This will depend on your workflow.  I’m an e-drummer with occasional recording (but not heavy production) and the processor usage is fairly low, regardless of whether SD3 is stand-alone or in a DAW.  I’ve watched the activity monitor while playing as aggressively as I can, and the workload fit within a single core. What limits me (and why I’m looking at M4 minis) is memory capacity.  I routinely bump up against my current 16GB memory limit.  Some SDXs can have large memory footprints (eg 10GB for a Legacy preset, although most are 3-5GB), and if you use multiple SD3 tracks in your DAW, you can really eat into the machine memory capacity.

If you are mainly producing and often use more processor-intensive tasks like bouncing, then the core config might matter more for you.  I’d suggest this decision is one of speed not limitation (in contrast to the memory limitation mentioned above).  More cores will mean faster bounces, but I have no specific data on how much impact they’d have other than the standard processor benchmarks that are becoming available for the M4.

In short: with my M1 mini base processor config, I’ve never had a case (as an e-drummer) where I thought the cores were holding me back or causing issues.  Memory limits do impact my workflow, though.

Reply To: What’s the preferred core settings for SD3?? version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

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Thanked by: adiaz7531

[pumpkinking]

If I were playing a real hihat, and I wanted the “crisp” sound of a “closed tip” articulation (hitting the bow of the closed hihat with the tip of a drumstick, which is normally low in volume) but I wanted as much volume as I could get, I would probably push hard on the hihat pedal and hit the edge of the hihat.  Guessing that translates to “tight edge” at max velocity but really I’d have to listen to the samples on the kit in question to see if that is how they intended that articulation.  Also different hihat cymbals can respond to that with various amounts of “washiness” (how big they are, are they the same size, flatness of the cymbal edge, etc).

Reply To: Hihat: closed tip, closed edge, tight tip, tight edge? version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sonoma (14)

[pumpkinking]

Check out the bottom three presents (see image).  These load a full range of timpani notes.

 

Reply To: Orchestral Percussion mapping and kit creation? version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sonoma (14)

1

Thanked by: drumjack52

[pumpkinking]

I’m using a merge of two Alesis kits (Surge and Crimson II) and they work fairly well, although I opted to buy two eDrumIn modules instead of the Alesis modules for easier control of the midi assignments and support for multi-zone (which is not great on the Alesis snare, but better than not).  Also it let me connect additional cymbals from Lemon.

That said, now that I have experience with the quality of Lemon cymbals, I’m wondering if a complete Lemon kit would be a good low-priced alternative as well.

Reply To: Best “cheap” electronic drums version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sonoma (14)

[pumpkinking]

Check out the post I made below a while ago and see if it helps.  I have gotten this working with two separate pedals (using the ED10 modules) passing separate CC notes for the two hi-hats.  The challenge seemed to be to find enough available midi assignments for all of the articulations I wanted to represent on the two hi-hats.
https://www.toontrack.com/forums/topic/using-a-second-hi-hat-with-superior-drummer-3/

Reply To: Suggestions for dual hi-hat stands version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sonoma (14)

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