[Eraz]

Mark King wrote:

the tom rim shot sound will give you the crack you want as does the snare rim shot.

• This post was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Mark King.

Well thats awesome, thank you for that advice! I will try that out the next time.

Edit: I feel the normal center hits, especially on the pearl kit toms, are harder than the rimshots.

I also recently found out that there are 2 different kick hits in the drum map, one being harder than the other. That helps a little bit too.

• This post was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Eraz.

[Eraz]

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

I record unprocessed raw drums on  a weekly basis, so I dont  have to listen to other recordings, as I know how they sound.

Arrogantly put! Not listening to other recordings is rather myopic and rather limiting in itself.

If the aggression is missing in the playing, then every other processing on top of that will still be a compromise. A bad one.

Considering you don’t listen to other recordings, this is a weightless observation. Perhaps you need to listen to other raw recordings to get what I am saying.

And that shows that you don’t get the point. I am well aware what processing is needed to get raw sounding tracks sound “finished”, but the outcome will only be a good sounding performance, if it was played with the right attitude.

Oh, I very well get it. I’ve gotten it for the past 40 years. Not to mention that I have also heard many aggressive recordings in my lifetime where no matter the performance, it doesn’t show in the raw tracks. Raw tracks are just that: RAW! And with everyone mixing in the box these days, it is even worse because everyone is recording without processing and are not going to get what they are after because they’re “fixing” it in the mix. And because this is all in the box, it takes process to bring out the good performance. But then you already know that.

And looking on other forums it seems I am not alone with my impression. Again I am talking about the performance, and the only thing which is missing, what I can think of, is that when sampling the core library, they did not include really heavy hits.

Spare me the mob mentality. Again, this is a one size fits all in the box situation and it takes some processing to bring it out. If they want something more then they need something with the processing already applied. If you’re telling me that the heavy hits aren’t there, then how am I able to bring them out on snares like the Tama Bell Brass and Pearl kick and toms? Tell me all you want about performance, but all you’re telling me in the case is that you want someone else to bring out the performance for you. So, please, go ahead and tell me again how I don’t get it.

Because everything else sounds really really good and real. So yeah, this is a real limitation (at least of the core library) and not a user limitation. Genres like Rock and harder will suffer from that.

Considering that they haven’t suffered on any rock (classic, modern and metal) mixes here, I heavily disagree. A “real” limitation would affect ALL users.

jord

• The post has been modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Bear-Faced Cow
  5 years, 6 months ago by Bear-Faced Cow"> 3 times, last modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Bear-Faced Cow.

Man cmon… of course I listen also to other recordings. What I wanted to say (again), is that I know what real heavy hitted drums should sound like, as I record them regularly in my studio. And the core library doesn’t get me there, because I miss the last 10-20% of, lets call it “energy”. Of course I check also other recordings and don’t limit myself to anything.

It seems you feel personally attacked, just because I don’t agree that the core library is made for heavier stuff. If it works for you, well thats good for you. But it has limitations for me and other producers as well, as I recently found out by checking other online forums.
And the reason is what I mentioned multipled times above. So before giving up on SD3 I wanted to know if there is a way to get these last 10-20% before processing.

So if you don’t have any constructive advice on that, I would be grateful if I could go on with this conversation here without having to justify myself.

[Eraz]

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

These drums sound too soft, even on the max velocity. Of course you can compress and limit the hell out of that, but in the end it will still be a soft hitted drum.

Sorry, but that’s not true. Listen to many raw unprocessed recorded drum tracks and you’ll hear them sounding wimpy, wooly and somewhat limp before any real processing is applied. Compression is more for evening out the dynamics and perhaps bring forth the transients, but that’s only one thing. There are way more techniques to bring out the aggression. You need to figure out what’s best for the song.

Especially for kick/snare and toms, cymbals less but still. It feels like theres missing the last 10-20% of hard hits in all the core libraries. And this youtube video also proofs my point imho.

No… it doesn’t prove your point. Maybe it’s illustrating that you’re not doing something correct in your mix. One of the main reasons that the rock and metal SDX packages sound the way they do is because much of the processing that that you are believing is wrong is applied at the source (ie, is part of the recording process) bringing out that aggression. Because SD3 Core Library is a one size fits all library, applying that type of processing at the source is not a viable idea since it only applies to one genre. Chances are, if you are not getting what you need out of a kit piece, you’re using the wrong kit piece for that track.

If it’s not aggressive, the only reason is because it hasn’t been made to be aggressive. That’s a user limitation and not SD3.

Thank you for the tip! So after spending all that money on SD3 I need to spend another 150$/€? Thats really disappointing…

You couldn’t get a professionally recorded set(s) of drums from Bob Rock, Michael Ilbert or Mark Lewis so cheap, and that’s not even accounting for the time to rent the studio space! If you want all of that stuff that you didn’t want to do yourself, then the above are your people since they’ve done the work for you. There’s no something for nothing.

jord

I record unprocessed raw drums on  a weekly basis, so I dont  have to listen to other recordings, as I know how they sound. If the aggression is missing in the playing, then every other processing on top of that will still be a compromise. A bad one.

And that shows that you don’t get the point. I am well aware what processing is needed to get raw sounding tracks sound “finished”, but the outcome will only be a good sounding performance, if it was played with the right attitude.

And looking on other forums it seems I am not alone with my impression. Again I am talking about the performance, and the only thing which is missing, what I can think of, is that when sampling the core library, they did not include really heavy hits.

Because everything else sounds really really good and real. So yeah, this is a real limitation (at least of the core library) and not a user limitation. Genres like Rock and harder will suffer from that.

[Eraz]

onewayout_1 wrote:

Eraz wrote:

Jorg wrote:

The Rock Foundry SDX is the only library I found sound „louder“ in the default settings

Thank you for the tip! So after spending all that money on SD3 I need to spend another 150$/€? Thats really disappointing…

You could also turn it into a positive and take this fantastic Professional edition tool and get a chance to learn all the ins n outs and all the nuances to make the sounds you’re looking for.

There literally no limitations to what you have now….. Becoming a good producer let’s us have no limitations on whatever we have to work with…

Thanks for your answer. But I need the right sound at the source and thats the problem here. And yeah unfortunately these are the limitations.

These drums sound too soft, even on the max velocity. Of course you can compress and limit the hell out of that, but in the end it will still be a soft hitted drum. Especially for kick/snare and toms, cymbals less but still. It feels like theres missing the last 10-20% of hard hits in all the core libraries. And this youtube video also proofs my point imho.

• This post was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Eraz.

[Eraz]

Jorg wrote:

The Rock Foundry SDX is the only library I found sound „louder“ in the default settings

Thank you for the tip! So after spending all that money on SD3 I need to spend another 150$/€? Thats really disappointing…

[Author]

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