3

[drumjack52]

bpjacobsen wrote:

drumjack52 wrote:

If you’re trying to copy the snare sound on those two albums you are SOL until you find that exact snare (and the heads that were used). And the rest of the chain that was in use. Even for me being a huge Neil Peart fan I would go with the snare he used in his DW kits rather than try and copy something from an album. But try and find a wood DW snare in an SDX – I seem to remember one but not the SDX it was in. Would love to have a complete wood DW kit from say the Time Machine or Clockwork Angels tours. There is a DW wood kit in D&D which I use to cover Rush stuff but the snare is metal though. I am NOT buying an SDX just to get a wood DW snare.

Would it be possible for you to share your preset or project file that has your ‘rush’ cover stuff in it? I have D&D. Would be curious to see what your’s sounds like.

As I’ve mentioned I don’t use any effects or do any mixing in SD3. I use multi-out in SD3. I do do groups of kit pieces like rack toms to one SD3 mixer channel, rack toms to another, etc. and thence onto separate aux tracks in ProTools which when I want to render to audio they get sent to individual audio tracks. In PT I do cut unnecessary lows on the rack and floor toms with an EQ in PT (SPL PQ-EQ from Plugin Alliance). I then group all the PT tracks to an aux track that has the Purple Audio MC77 from Plugin Alliance. Then I do a send to my drum verb (Liquidsonics Lustrous Plates) and that goes to another aux track to be summed with that first aux track. I do it that way so I can drop the drums out without having to worry about anything. Sprinkled in there are the SSL X-Limit to catch overs (I set it to -.5dB). I end up with 23 tracks in all in PT which are a mix of aux and audio tracks.

I tend to go more for a live sound with Rush stuff.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

If you’re trying to copy the snare sound on those two albums you are SOL until you find that exact snare (and the heads that were used). And the rest of the chain that was in use. Even for me being a huge Neil Peart fan I would go with the snare he used in his DW kits rather than try and copy something from an album. But try and find a wood DW snare in an SDX – I seem to remember one but not the SDX it was in. Would love to have a complete wood DW kit from say the Time Machine or Clockwork Angels tours. There is a DW wood kit in D&D which I use to cover Rush stuff but the snare is metal though. I am NOT buying an SDX just to get a wood DW snare.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

What would help is having the drums Neil used. Here’s a link to what he used on Moving Pictures: http://andrewolson.com/Neil_Peart/drums/drumkits/moving_pictures.htm

And here’s a link to the parent site which has album cover pictures of the Rush albums. Click on a cover to go to the page that lists what Neil used on what: http://andrewolson.com/Neil_Peart/drums/drumkits/drums_history.htm

On both albums Neil used what he called ‘Old Faithful’ which is a 5.5×14 Slingerland Artist Model snare with candy apple red finish, a 3 ply shell and 8 lugs. Interesting that his drum tech was not Lorne Weaton but Larry Allen.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

Do you have the pads connected to the drum brain? Your setup is quite old (last produced 2008) and appears to be discontinued. If it’s class compliant you shouldn’t need a driver.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

Mark King wrote:

It’s not how drummers play though. There is always a slight variation in playing which is what makes it sound real. I record by playing in with my ekit. I will do some editing, mainly to get rid of mis triggers and clean up hi hat cc data. I may also go through and alter a few snare and kick notes if the velocity is too far out. Otherwise I like to keep it feeling as organic as possible. Drummers don’t play in fixed velocity ranges with exact samples. You may as well just get a sample pack and use something else for that. SD3 is about realism.

Thank you thank you and thank you for saying this. It’s the point I’ve been trying to make and good to hear it from another drummer/musician. I think the OP is dealing with issues other than drum velocities if you get my drift. There are drummers (Gene Hoagland – the human metronome) that are beyond excellent in timing but none perfectly consistent in velocity. Use SD3 for what it was designed for.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

Nobody really knows those numbers and it varies for each SDX. You’d have to get in touch with the production people behind each SDX and even then they might not have the answer you want.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

No, but it is about having a good feeling by tweaking things and playing with knobs.

I don’t have the time or energy to chase things that don’t really matter to the music at hand. And neither do those I do work for. If a client wants something I will try and do my damndest to do do it for them. Other than that if it comes to something that makes no sense and they won’t (or can’t) hear then that’s that. Been at this long enough to know the deal.

I try and help where I can with posting here and other forums the wisdom I’ve come by over the decades so take that as you will. Do I know everytihng? No. Never said that. But I do know (for the most part) what works and what won’t. I treat drums in SD3 or any other drum vi the same way I treat physical drums.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

• This post was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by drumjack52.

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

PS I found a way to randomly increase or decrease the velocity without touching the maxium velocity. e.g. velocity 124 should remain 124 and 118-100 should be increased by 5. You can draw and select all notes BELOW 124, then increase them.

So you found a solution but the question is can you really hear the difference between the hits? Have a musician friend do a blind listening test with you and see if he can tell the difference.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

mattoconnell408 wrote:

Am experiencing similar issues with V51. Digital ride is super quiet.

Check your velocity curve settings in the drum brain.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

You are right. Do you know the answer to my other questions please?

1) How do you set a velocity of 114? The grid editor always jumps from 115 to 113…I can set all other velocities just fine. Normally, you can use shift to e.g. increase or decrease the panning slider, but not for velocities.

2) How can I have a maximum velocity of x with a random variation? I don’t want to use e.g. 122 random 3 to create velocities of 119-125, but use 124 as the default velocity, then subtract a random 0-x velocity, but without increasing the 124.

You just don’t get it do you? That little bit of velocity doesn’t mean anything and you’ll never hear it. If you were working in a daw with the MIDI then the velocity change is easy. Take for instance in ProTools (which I use). I can set a velocity of say 120 with a random variation of say 3. That way I would have random velocity possibilities of 117 to 123.  Then tailor the center number (120 in my example) to be the middle of what you want. Even the greatest of drummers would not be able to control their velocities like that. Not Neil Peart, Vinnie Coliuta, Buddy Rich – no human.

That being said SD3 can’t do what you want as near as I know.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

Thanks, I know…but maybe there is a recommendation for certain velocities, e.g. 124, 114, 104, 94, 84…

I’d suggest not overthinking things like you have a tendency to do. The absolute number doesn’t mean a thing. If it sounds good then it is good. Precise numbers don’t mean a thing in music except for maybe time signature like a waltz which is 3/4 time.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

1

Thanked by: Bear-Faced Cow

[drumjack52]

BlueMistral wrote:

it is humanly impossible to sample 127 velocity layers, that’s why round robins are used, 2-3 layers for kicks, 6 to 8 layers for other drums, dispersed in all the round robins

While true I do know that for some piano libraries machines have been built to take the place of a human when doing the sampling so they could get all possible velocity values. I don’t know if any drum VST has done that just not TT. I’d like an official statement as to how many layers TT uses though and what they are.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

Graham: Be careful as the MIDI notes trigger different articulations depending on whether you’re using the core library or an SDX. For example notes 126 is snare rim shot and 127 are indeed the two articulations you mention in the core library but in Death and Darkness they’re snare rim shot and sidestick and in Area 33 126 is snare rim fx and 127 is snare only. Not all the SDX’s follow the same MIDI note number/articulation scheme (nor are they all according to the MIDI spec either).

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

I don’t get a ‘special OH’ channel when I create a tom/rack tom – just routing to the usual OH mixer channel in addition to the usual direct mic. Creating a china gives me a  mono OH and it’s own stereo OH channel. Tambourines give me a tambourine OH channel and the direct mic channel. To be frank I don’t mess with the pannings especially with the OH mics. Nor the direct mics for that matter. The panning orientation will change depending on whether you’re using drummer or audience perspective. I tend to mix from an audience perspective. Most producers will mix drums so that they’re in the middle of the sound field unless going for some kind of weird effect. And as I keep saying the OH mics are not meant to give spacial auditory cues – the meat of the sound should come from any direct mics IMO.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

Thank you!

I’m getting closer to fixing my issue. I’ve added a tambourine that doesn’t have a real overhead signal. It’s always barely audible…I’d need to set the level to +12.

Yes, working without room etc. is easier. I used to have simple samples for kick, snare, toms, cymbals…one file…easy to mix, but thin sound.

Tambourines aren’t all that loud to begin with. If it’s to be a featured part the producer would probably designate a mic just for that. You’d do well to search YouTube videos on recording different things (like how to mic, etc.). Percussionists will often have their own mic setup. As always don’t judge something in solo mode but with all the other pieces playing.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[Author]

Replies