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[Dan Wilson]

Hi Bear-Faced Cow,

I know what you mean. This is the first time I really used C&V for a song. I drawn to this particular SDX cymbal selection with the Gretsch round badge kit. I have to admit compared to the newer SDX’s the kit load size is really small and that always kinda of put me off but it worked out okay.

Dan

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Jord,

I think you miss understand what I am saying and in no way am I trying to be argumentative.

 

First for gain staging (original post question) set the channels up as I have described so that you have the individual channels peaking around -18 to -12 dB. This gives between 12-18 dbB of head room depending how much gain reduction you use per track. In the case of drums, these channels become your sub mix that then go to a bus where you can control the volume of the drums in your mix.

Second we are saying the same thing when you write … “…if you want to use a control surface, you’ll want to maintain better control and have a more accurate picture of your volume… using the faders.” To me, I interpret your statement as, you want the maximum fader resolution when you mix, which I agree with and this is when the fader is at 0 dB. You still can raise the fader +6 dB if needed or reduce it to -infinity (sorry could find the symbol) if you want to.

I am not saying mix with the gain plugin and all of the faders at 0. If that is the way it came across, that was not my meaning. I meant it only as a way of gain staging each track so you have the necessary head room before you start to mix. In Logic and other DAW (32 bit floating point calculations) this really only matters when you are using plugins that are emulations of hardware like say an 1176 or LA2A compressors etc, as the companies emulate the max signal before distortion. When you write “…route them to a bus/aux channel… That’s the one you will want to use to adjust your overall drum mix…”, again I totally agree with you. All I am saying is, if you gain stage your tracks going into the bus you will have more headroom and less chance of distorting your plugins.

Again, Jord I am not trying to be argumentative, I was only trying to give an answer to the original question about gain staging SD3 tracks in logic and the method I use to solve it.

 

Dan

Reply To: Gain staging version: 3.1.5
Operating system: macOS High Sierra (10.13)

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Judahkim,

 

If you are going to using the multi-instrument option in Logic, which is a very valid option as pointed out by Jord, then put a gain plugin on each aux. Pick one voice of the drum kit that you want to stand out and lower the gain on the other aux sends until you have the balance you want for the drums. It doesn’t mess with anything and your faders stay at 0.

 

Dan

Reply To: Gain staging version: 3.1.5
Operating system: macOS High Sierra (10.13)

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Judahkim,

 

You may want to try…

After setting up the multiple output aux tracks for SD3 in logic, keep the faders at 0dB. Insert a Gain plugin on each track then lower the gain of the track to balance you drums. The advantage of this is with automation, around 0dB the fader has the greatest resolution. If you have to move a fader down, to say -24dB to balance your drum volumes than small movements of the fader in this region can result in large gain changes, whereas around 0dB the same small movements of the fader result in smaller gain changes.

hope this helps.

Dan

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Jord,

 

Thanks for the advice/ suggestions. This is exactly the kind of feedback I am looking for. I look forward to trying each of your suggestions.

 

Dan

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Joni,

I enjoyed the track. I really liked the clarity of the lead guitar. If I was going to give any criticism, I would say lower the ride cymbal a bit. Keep them coming.

 

Dan

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Rallyboy101,

Thanks for all of your advice. Maybe in the future I will get the song mastered by a professional. It getting to the point of wanting to replace things in the song to make if “better” like the rhythm guitar I played on the left side. I am a drummer not a guitar player, it is really just me having a little fun in my studio.

For now I am going to step away from this song and take the stuff I learned and apply it to another song.

Really enjoyed listening to Shane MacGowan’s Lonesome Highway.

Dan

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Rallyboy,

Thanks again for your comments I really appreciate it. I remixed the song again and tried bringing in the guitars in a bit and moved the organ part off centre to open room up for the vocals. Funny thing is my brother did do the backup vocals. I guess being brothers we sound a little too much alike.

I have heard your songs and I really enjoyed the tunes. Can’t wait to hear the finished version of “Somewhere Far Away”

Dan

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Rallyboy,

Really liked the song. The BGV at 2 and 4 minutes where very nice I think they really fit with the dreamy feel you are trying to evoke seems like you could visit it once more within the body of the song. As for the middle section why not explore using the vibrato guitar there, as an example listen to what you were doing at around 3 minutes. If I could given one small constructive criticism – that is to fade the morse code part a little earlier since it is more straight time and the rest of the song has more swing to it, I think it takes away from the groove of the song.

I hope I haven’t offended with what I wrote above.

Dan

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Rallyboy,

I enjoyed listening to the tune. I like how you balanced the mix, I could hear every instrument without anyone overpowering the others.

Dan

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Rallyboy101,

First of all, thank you for the constructive criticism, I really appreciate it. After reading it, I played around with the mix a bit more. Hopefully it moved in the right direction.
The bass is a DI p-bass played by my brother. The chain is DI into MOTU 828x into logic x. Plugins include the waves Puigtech Eqs and IK Black76 and White 2A with a bit of parallel compression.

Any further constructive criticism will be most appreciated.

Cheers
Dan

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Matthew,

Thank you for the advice, especially about the entry/passing words and the level of the vocals relative to the music. I will look closer at this and arrangement suggestions on the next song.

Your constructive criticisms was what I was hoping for.

Cheers

Dan

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Rasmus,

The method you described is a lot more elegant compared to the what I described, I will be using your method it in the future.

Dan

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Rasmus_5,

I run logic 10.4.1 and quickly set up a loop with SD3 as a plugin as you did to make sure what I am going to suggest will work. In Logic I selected the multi-output option in SD3 and created multi busses in Logic. In the SD3 mixer I bussed all of the kick mics to a single bus, in this case bus 3/4. So far everything is as you set it up.

Now in Logic, I set the kick bus channel to output 3/4 of logic. When you do this, a 3/4 Output fader appears between the Stereo output fader and Master fader. I checked to make sure only the kick drum was playing in this bus only.

Press bounce on the 3/4 Output fader (bottom). A dialog box will pop up, select 24 PCM and on the right of the dialog box there is an option to include file in your project. Check this box.

After logic completes the bounce open your browsers, the little box in the upper right hand corner (image of camera, notes, film) where logic contains the links to the various files in your project. Your newly bounced tracks will be in there.

Now drag these files from there onto/ into your arrange page and drop them on the correct bar. Now you should have your drums bussed out as you wanted them. Hope this made sense.

Dan

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Dan Wilson]

Hi Scott,

Absolutely, but what if you say wanted to use two different eq or compressor settings on your top and bottom snare mics. You could at present send each mic to a different stereo bus in SD2 and the out to logic (DAW) but you end up with a bunch of stereo busses for mono mics. I am merely suggesting if one could access their third party plugins within SD2 it would be much more elegant.
I suppose then, of course, people would ask that they be able to access the kick track in SD2 from the bass compressor so they could duck the bass in the their DAW. I realize it is a never ending “how about…”. This was only a thought after using SD2 and truly liking the end result, but to get there is was just a little cumbersome.

Dan Wilson

Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac

[Author]

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