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[Cygnus64]

I guess nobody else can hear it.

[Cygnus64]

Thanks. Yeah, it was in Sonar. I had to set the patch to “none” for some reason. It was just a fluke.

[Cygnus64]

ORIGINAL: tombuur

Now working on with other bars I found that it matters a lot what you transpose into. Let’s say your base is C (I), then it may not sound good in F (IV) or E (IIIm). So I decided to transpose to those chords in the C-scale where the clips sounded best and tag them accordingly.

Sorry, but at the moment I am not sure if EZK can do chord inversions. Forgot to check late last night. But in case it can, maybe that could make some of the transpositions sound better. If not: Well, then I have another request for the EZK updates.

1. Transpositions will be wrong much of the time. That’s not EZ Keys’ fault, just math. The program doesn’t “guess” where you’d like the next chord as far as octave, so there will be unnatural jumps in the line. Easy fix, just slice that measure into one “file” and change the octave in the properties box. You can even see the midi data in EZ Keys if you have good eyes, you’ll see if the next chord is in the correct octave or not.

2. Inversions: it does them kinda, kinda not. For starters it does slash chords (open the “details” box), so while that’s not an inversion it’s usually where the problem lies. As for the midi patterns, they are not all in root position. Therefore it can do inversions to an extent, we just can’t tell it “Cm 1st inversion” etc. If you have an inverted chord and transpose it, it will transpose inverted of course.

3. I’ve spent a lot of time with this thang. I’ve learned the most from looking at the patterns in notation view on my DAW (Sonar). Some interesting stuff happening: Some of the transposed chords end up with “phasing”. There will be two “b’s on one chord in unison, which will produce a phasing sound. I delete one of them. This happens quite a bit, I noticed from the beginning that there is a phasing sound at times, and when I looked at it I found out that it is literally phasing, sometimes 2 sets of identical notes on one chord. Easy fix, but an important fix too.

The notation view lets you see “phrases”. One might hear something a bit funky, but when they see it, it becomes clear. There are jumps in the voicings caused by transposing. While the “pick a chord, any chord” feature is amazing, it has a finite amount of accuracy since it is literal. A lot of the top notes of chords have large jumps, which is usually not wanted. Again, get the eraser in the DAW and get rid of them or move them. There are also passages that may have a 7 note chord followed by a five note chord. That creates voice leading that isn’t smooth. While all that might not be as EZ as people expected, it’s just how literal transposition works, and it might yield an acceptable result but a few minutes of looking at the staff will yield great results with smoother voice leading.

[Cygnus64]

ORIGINAL: rgarber

Okay, I do get it now. Part of the problem is the only thing covered about this in the manual

There are a few other things that are of interest. I’m a manual-skipper so I tend not to read them but some other features that may be of interest that I discovered:

1. Slash Chords. In the circle thingy, open up “details” and you’ll see where one can use slash chords.

2. 5ths. Again in “details”, hold down the “5” and one can make it dim or aug. The same with 9ths and 11ths.

The slash chord is a really good feature. BTW, the “chord notation tool” basically does the same thing that the circle of fifths wheel does, it just does it in a different way. It might be helpful to some to see it in a more up/down fashion, it’s also an easy way to pick slash chords.

[Cygnus64]

ORIGINAL: Whitten

As I said, EZkeys isn’t a mini DAW and it’s not unreasonable to point that out to you or anyone else.

It’s extremely unreasonable and frankly, it’s absolutely ridiculous. This is a thread about feature requests. It is not about YOU telling ME where I “need to be”, I could write a friggin’ piano concerto with this thing. I work with DAW’s 8 hours a day.

I’ll ask for any feature requests I DAMN WELL PLEASE. If you don’t like them, big woopy woo. Christ, I asked for copy/paste and you act like I asked for a multiple fugue variation generator . Unless I missed the big meeting where you were appointed “Feature Requests Hall Monitor” or “Thread Czar”, I would really appreciate you butting out of my business and not trying to be judge of what is reasonable and what is unreasonable according to you, that’s the grade school hall monitor approach.

[Cygnus64]

ORIGINAL: Whitten

Yes.
I’m just suggesting the better workflow at present is to drag small clips into your DAW early on, and build up the very long string of parts there.
Essentially I think it’s unreasonable to expect EZkeys to act like a mini DAW.

Let me get this straight: You think “copy/paste” , something found in “notepad” from the 80s, is some sort of advanced DAW feature? Wowza. I didn’t ask for auto-harmonizing Tuvaluan throat-singing samples in semi-tones, or World Peace. It’s not Roe v Wade or Tiananmen Square we’re talking, I said “copy/paste”. You know, like software aimed at pre-schoolers might have. You think “copy/paste is unreasonable? If you think “copy/paste” is some strange, weird, exotic thing that says “DAW”, you probably need to spend far less time responding with gibberish to stuff on the interwebz, just sayin.’

[Cygnus64]

ORIGINAL: Whitten

ORIGINAL: Cygnus64

Copy/Paste: A midi file cannot be pasted into a DAW, it can only be dragged in ( I think?). It would be easier and have more uses if one could paste.

I don’t understand the problem (genuinely)?

More of a workflow than anything else. I do long pieces with 60+ tracks, sometimes it’s a lot easier to be able to paste than it is to drag. I often drag to the wrong line and the wrong place. 🙂 Also, once you drag an entire segment into a DAW, it becomes one. In EZ Keys, it might be 20 patterns, so it’s the ability to pick one pattern and copy it then paste it on any line in the score. I’m a pro symphony arranger, so I’m looking at lots of staves at one time.

[Cygnus64]

To clarify the above: I don’t mean like a “repeat sign” in music. I mean that something selected would “repaste” itself to the next slot.

[Cygnus64]

ORIGINAL: fizbin

Feature requests anyone?

Repeat button (“R”). Anything selected in the song track would be repeated by pressing R: if there is one measure selected, that measure is repeated. If an entire phrase is selected, same thing. If a chord symbol (and only the chord symbol) is selected, the chord would repeat (but the thematic material below it would not). If both the chord and the pattern were selected, than both would repeat.

Copy/Paste: A midi file cannot be pasted into a DAW, it can only be dragged in ( I think?). It would be easier and have more uses if one could paste.

[Cygnus64]

ORIGINAL: jerjabs

EZ Drummer IS A ONE STOP shop for drum composing, that’s what I wanted EZ Keys to be. Listen, you’re kidding yourself if you think the current amount of drag and drop performance are enough to justify a $150+ plugin. There is no arguing this fact, if you do, you’re wrong.

Jerjabs, I think the other thread entitled “I don’t get it” is aptly titled. In no way do I mean that in an insulting or negative way, not at all. There could be lots of reasons for differing opinions, from pre-conceived expectations to differing ways that we all use tools, or maybe advertising that suggests certain things etc. Some people might not “get it”, it’s a different concept than existing products, and there’s nothing wrong about that.

I, for one, “get it”. I’m thrilled with the product and I think the $150 I paid to Sweetwater was an excellent price, the piano vst alone is worth it. The piano sounds great in a mix. The amount of midi patterns included with the purchase is substantially more than it appears, it’s just packaged differently than EZ Drummer:

EZ Drummer comes with 1 measure patterns for the most part: EZ Keys has 8 measure phrases. The phrases can be substantially different in the last 4 measures than they are in the first 4. In other words, it’s two patterns in one package. Likewise, there are one measure segments that can be looped and work brilliantly, so theoretically the 8 measure phrase can have up to 8 patterns. In other words, the content you want is there, it’s just in long phrases that one needs to de-phrase, so to speak. That scissor tool is a miracle worker!! Chopping up an 8 measure phrase expands the possibilities considerably.

The crux of the biscuit: I’m sure many of us have EZ Drummer, and there will be inevitable comparisons. EZ Drummer is merely a 21st century drum machine: it doesn’t work much differently than my drum machines from 30 years ago. EZ Keys is a new bird. Get this: Drums are Pattern-based, Keyboards are NOT. One wants the constant oom-pah of a steady drum beat, but they don’t want a pattern-based keyboard part. They want “phrases”, and every phrase is unique. 100 people could use the exact same drum patterns and get 100 different results with the song, but 100 people using the same phrase will get one result: that one phrase. That’s where the “I get it/I don’t get it” difference comes in. I think it’s a music-based solution to “get” and not product-based. The good news is I think most people will “get it” with a little time. When one looks at it from a strictly musical viewpoint, they might see that this is not a “loop-based” product like audio loops: It’s a phrase builder.

What you describe as a “ONE STOP” keyboard solution doesn’t exist, simply because it CANNOT exist. It’s against the essence of what music is. If you were led to believe otherwise I guess that’s something to take up with the Toontrack advert dept. 🙂 But the product and the amount of product is there, and it’s oh-so-cool. As a fellow musician, I’m encouraging you to take a bit of time and look at the patterns and see the wealth of material that is already there, you might be pleasantly surprised if you look at it from a different perspective.

[Cygnus64]

ORIGINAL: John

3. The ability to “silence” a part in EZ keys: If I have a phrase at measure 70 and I drag it into Sonar, both will play. I end up deleting the one in EZ keys. It would be nice to leave it there and have it automatically muted.

You already have 2 ways to solve this:

1) Right-click on the EZkeys part(s) and select ‘Mute’

2) De-select ‘Follow Host’

BR,
John

Thanks John.

[Cygnus64]

ORIGINAL: fizbin

Anything else?

1. The ability to change key sigs and meters in one track.

2. A sort of “rewire” capability between EZ Keys and DAW: if I change time sigs in Sonar, have that reflected in EZ Keys. Key sigs too.

3. The ability to “silence” a part in EZ keys: If I have a phrase at measure 70 and I drag it into Sonar, both will play. I end up deleting the one in EZ keys. It would be nice to leave it there and have it automatically muted.

4. Ultimately, I’d like to see two versions that would compare to EZ Drummer vs. Superior. Adding too much to “EZ Keys” might defeat the purpose for some users, making it too complex. The $150-$175 EZ Keys would stay about the same (with a few small improvements), while the $300-350 Superior Keys would be an advanced production tool with:

a. Inversions
b. Key changes/ Time changes
c. “Smart” transposition that doesn’t just put things in a different key, but puts them in a different inversion or voicing.
d. Extensive editing features
e. It would act more like a plug-in than a separate program, with more integration with DAWs.
f. Advanced chord features like alternative chord suggestions. That would be awesome, if it used a bit of theory and suggested a minor vi for a I etc.

Of course, any future expansion packs and instruments would be compatible with both versions.

[Cygnus64]

I’ve been using it non-stop for a week and have found the possiblities to be wide open. For the record, I’m a seasoned pro musician: I say that because the product (I think) has several groups and levels that it could be used by and marketed to. I’m currently working on an album, and my album has literally gone in another direction in the past week, after going back and altering some of my previous work.

Caveat Emptor: I was not looking for the “EZ” aspect of the program so I really can’t address that. Piano is not my primary instrument. More importantly, I’m a classical musician for a living so the stylistic approach I have is markedly different from what is presented in the clips. I’m great at theory, chord structure, blah blah, but I don’t have the ability to play in the style, with pedals, “blue” notes, ghost notes, grace notes, proper voicings, on and on.

Some of the things I am doing:

1. I rarely use an 8 measure phrase. I’m cutting, pasting, using 2 of this and 6 of that. I’m taking 6 measures from rock and putting in one measure from gospel and one measure from jazz in. I’m mixing variations, changing octaves. I’m making music. I’m using that scissor tool like a chef at Benihana.

2. I’m doing a lot in my DAW. I drag it into Sonar and then edit. I do it with notation view: I add notes, delete notes, add quite a bit of real playing. Being able to see it in notation is helpful to me. I’ve even opened files in Sibelius. In the DAW, I’m adding tempo fluctuations, ritards, I’m changing note lengths. If I drag in something that’s “almost right” it will be 100% right in 5 minutes.

3. I’m adding a lot of flavor by experimenting. Drag a standard chord progression into EZ Keys, then try adding seconds (add 9), 7ths, 11ths. Take out the 3 or fifth.

4. I’m going ambient: I’m pulling up Massive, Kontakt, etc and using lots of sound sources. I’m using E Pianos, harpsichords, splits, layers.

5. I’ve owned EZ drummer for years so I’ve always worked this way: adding crashes, mixing and matching measures, making my own patterns etc.

There ya go. I gotta say: I’m get stunning results. As I said, I wasn’t seeking out the “EZ” aspects. I’ve never owned BIAB so I can’t compare and that wasn’t my interest in the product. I’ve been doing midi since, umm, they invented midi. 🙂 Therefore I realize that the real power here is combining the capabilities of EZ Keys with a DAW. That, and using some imagination: I’m going back to tracks I’ve already done and just seeing what happens when I drag a country-flavored progression into a new-agey song. While I may not be the target customer, there is enormous potential, as is, from the product. And it’s still relatively “EZ” even to do advanced editing in a DAW.

1

Thanked by: Dave Falk

[Cygnus64]

tombuur,

you can drag a song from EZKeys to the desktop. Likewise, you can drag any midi file from the desktop into EZ Keys. It may be at this time that the extra step of “desktop” is what’s holding you back, I have Sonar and everything works fine.

[Cygnus64]

I had this error too. It’s confusing as double-clicking the zip file appears as it has been extracted (I’m sure that depends on various unzipping programs on one’s computer). it hasn’t. One has to right click and “extract”. It will look identical to the first way, but it will work.

[Author]

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