Bear-Faced Cow
Participant
Topics Started: 32
Replies Created: 3149
Has Thanked: 295
Been Thanked: 1157
Bear-Faced CowGlockenspiel is available in the Metallic percussion EKX and requires EZ Keys.
jord
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Thanked by: George Bellas and rixaBear-Faced CowWho said you would have to bake out any of the drum kits? Everything would still be non-destructive and you would still have plenty of control with Superior Drummer.
jord
Bear-Faced CowSounds more like you are better off using a pitch effect on the drum bus within a DAW for what you want to do.
jord
Bear-Faced CowAs Jack said, age doesn’t matter. I just used D&D in a recent mix for a client and it fit perfectly. If it fits what you need, get it
jord
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Thanked by: drumjack52Bear-Faced CowAnyway, sorry Mark for taking this thread of topic. Jord’s just such an annoying mix of helpful and knowledgeable but also kinda of narrow minded and dismissive.
You know, Shen, I might have answered you with consideration of your lack of experience as you demonstrated in another thread, but since you decided to take a trollish stance, I will have my fun dancing all over it at your expense.
Let’s work backwards.
I’m not sure what you mean exactly by “energy”. I’d like to think I make the energy with what and how I play. Soloed instruments sounding unnatural? I’ve heard enough to know things sound different to the ear in the room and to a close mic to a far mic of various types etc if thats what you mean. I’m not trying to blow a hole in anything. Don’t take it so personally. Or recording each track as a song going in? Recording as a band or each instrument? I can’t imagine what your point is. I think we are coming at the idea of music making from vary different angles.
This is where your inexperience starts. Energy has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with where the kit was recorded, how it was recorded, what it was recorded with, and who recorded it.
Let’s take a real life ToonTrack example and our favourite drummer: Norm Garschke
Norm has been on many of the ToonTrack SDXs that we know and enjoy, perhaps except for the two that Mark is enquiring about. He was on Real to Reel… you know, the one you’re gushing over. Well guess what: he’s on a number of other SDXs including Hansa, Hitmaker, Legacy of Rock, State of the Art, Decades, and a bunch of other equally great SDXs. I would bet my fretting hand that he is hitting the drums in each of those libraries with the same energy as he did in R2R. In many of these libraries, he’s also using similar if not identical kits (Hansa is an exception, but I’ve had other experiences working with libraries from Udo Masshoff).
Here’s the question: Do you think Decades has the same energy as State of the Art? Or Real to Real even? Say yes, and I would tell you that you don’t even know what you’re talking about. You hit a Ludwig Black Beauty snare in each of the libraries and you will get a different energy from it. I just finished mixing two song. Can you tell me exactly why did I use Legacy of Rock in one and Drum Factory in another? I auditioned numerous rock libraries, including my favourites. Guess what… they didn’t provide the energy I was looking for to make the song what I felt it needed to be. A lot of that energy comes from the room itself. Even the late great Neil Peart know that the energy behind his drumming on Rush’s albums were defined by the room. So if one of rock’s greatest drummers recognized this, what makes you convincing enough for anyone to believe otherwise. Your own p0sts demonstrate that you don’t have the ears to know the difference in a mix.
So…
I really don’t think you could convince me a drum track was real drums with a hodgepodge selection from vastly different rooms/mics etc unless it was run through so much production that it could have been any sound to begin with. I guess I’m just thinking a more stripped down, natural, “real” sound can always be produced in to something like you want, but it can’t be taken away.
I doubt you would have the ability to determine if I took a bare close mic’d kit and stacked a different ambience of a similar kit piece on it. You’re demonstrating that you don’t know where real comes from. I’ve done this many times long before I started using Superior Drummer. Everything from IRs to the UA Ocean Studios plug-in. I’ve used the latter to rescue various drum mixes and if they convinced some producers, you’d never know.
Still think I’m dismissive? I have stronger words for your lack of experience but I’ll refrain… for now.
As for the thread itself, I would agree that if you can get both, then get the bundle and we can then discuss the third SDX that you would be entitled to.
jord
Bear-Faced CowPhilosophy has zero to do with this. It’s all about the context of a song and a recording. There’s nothing artificial about exchanging ambiences, or any other type of stacking. I’m working on songs. The recorded drums have little to do with realism and everything to do with energy.
In fact, if you solo various instruments, you’d hear just how unnatural they sound and would blow a hole in all of the “realism” you think I’m missing.
Perhaps if you adopted the methodology of recording each track as a song going in, you’d realize just how little “realism” has to do with it.
jord
Bear-Faced CowI’m surprised you don’t appreciate the improvements in “sound quality” post core library more, Jord. I don’t really have the words to describe it, but the effect of closing ones eyes and believing you a behind a real kit in a real room doesn’t really happen for me until Death and Darkness.
That’s because the things that you are describing has very little to do with a song. There are many ex-BFD users that can attest to the kind of realism you are talking about, myself included. That doesn’t mean that it is well recorded for a song or genre. And no matter how real you believe it is, it’s useless if it doesn’t work in a song.
The earlier expansions that you describe as “unrealistic” are some of the best packs that fit into a song, plain and simple. In fact, many of these expansions were recorded to be period correct (Eddie Kramer used a Helios preamp for his kits as that is how he recorded bands such as Zeppelin and The Stones. Bob Rock used many of these techniques he used to capture Metallica and Motley Crue. I’ve used that pack more often in a mix because it was almost magical in the energy it added to the songs. That is what matters to me. I’ve also used The Progressive Foundry in numerous mixes because it’s very energetic and the kits work.
I audition many kits when setting up a mix, or even pre-production prior to recording other instruments or vocals. Energy is what I look for. Not whether it sounds like a real drum kit is sitting next to me. If I can’t find the energy I need make a song sound exciting in the kit I’m auditioning, I move on.
That, to me, is what it is all about
jord
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Thanked by: drumjack52Bear-Faced CowWe’re talking about recorded drums. Reality is what you make it. I’ve been stacking all sorts of things on Superior Drummer for a long time. All that matters is how it all comes together in a mix.
jord
Bear-Faced CowDespite the differences I find mixing and matching pieces from the rooms sounds good/cohesive.
Even so, you can borrow room ambiences from a single room and bring all pieces of the library together giving a good cohesive mix.
jord
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Thanked by: Mark KingBear-Faced CowThe envelope property box is that like a synthesizer. The OP is confusing velocity with decay (there is no such thing as default velocity) and probably shouldn’t be messing around with anything other than the release time and curve in order to achieve a natural shorter decay. Anything else with simply being the attack forward while suppressing the decay harder than it should be, making the drum sound like there’s 100lb of moon gel on it (unless the sound of banging on Tupperware is the sound your after).
jord
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Thanked by: drumjack52Bear-Faced CowTo put it this way: every library in Superior Drummer is recorded in a studio. Getting them to sound live like they are in the room you’re in would be more of a challenge than simply finding an expansion, if you need one, that mixes well with your instruments. Not have heard your sound, it would be hard to recommend an SDX.
jord
Bear-Faced CowI have both and they are both good. The real question is more about the sound and energy you want to impart on a song. The best way I can describe Stockholm is tight and intimate. Fields of Rock can give you that sound but Stockholm would take a lot of work to give you a huge energetic sound where Fields has that range. I’ve use FoR in a number of mixes and has enjoyed it so far. It’s one I reach for when it comes to getting a big in your face drums. That’s as far as I can elaborate on my experiences with FoR since I am not an eDrummer. However, I have my beliefs that you wouldn’t have a problem using your eDrums playing it.
Even the found sounds in the percussion have a sort of playability to them
jord
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Thanked by: Mark KingBear-Faced CowThese things you’re asking for are available in both the core library and the Jazz Sessions SDX. Not sure I understand what you’re asking here.
jord
Bear-Faced CowGo to the Libraries/Paths tab of your settings and you can locate them from there.
jord
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Thanked by: Scott Eshleman and drumjack52Bear-Faced CowA fast computer doesn’t mean a fast internet connection. You probably caught a slow router to the data servers. All I can say is be patient.
jord
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