Bear-Faced Cow
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Bear-Faced CowChatGPT is not a definitive answer. In fact, it’s nothing more than mashing information in a mediocre lump of misinformation. Next time try answering it using proper old school research.
Again, you are turning this into me not understanding what the problem is or stating there is no solution. You need to get over this and re-read what I have posted throughout.
However, you fail to understand many things about this issue and you have demonstrated this throughout:
Did I leave out anything?
Stop making this about me or anyone else. My response is and has always been objective and based on experience.
Again re-read what I’ve been saying all along. Further posts are doing nothing but going in circles.
Jord
Bear-Faced CowAhh Jack, you lovable old sourpuss. I might’ve expected you to interject on this thread with your usual brand of misinformation, but trolling? That is beneath even you, my friend. so now it’s time for me to have some fun with it perhaps at your expense.
One thing to keep in mind with Jord is he draws money from Toontrack so he would be expected to defend them but it’s that very thing that won’t allow him to admit that maybe the emperor has no clothes or at the very least they are threadbare.
Where did you ever come up with that piece of misinformation? I am very much a customer and have the credit card statements to prove it. But nice try. As far as defending them? Hardly! I’m just a little more familiar with how they work and how they speak to customers since I’ve been a customer for about 11 years. You’ve been a customer for how long. I too have also found numerous bugs with their various software, Along with steps to replicate them. How about you? I also know how fixing bugs work in the SDLC. How, you ask? When I’m not working with Music as my evening occupation and passion, I am working in the day with computers as a senior software developer. So I am very familiar with how bugs get rated and worked on. The principles are standard and don’t have anything to do with time expectations. Did you know that? I bet you didn’t or you wouldn’t have decided to step in with such trolling remarks.
This is not the first time he’s said that SD3 is not a sampler in the vein of something like Kontakt; at the same time though it’s a sample player and should be able to do what any other sample player is able to do.
if you actually knew what a sampler does, you would Agree that Superior Drummer It’s not a sampler. Even back in our old FXpansion days they were quick to tell you the same thing about BFD. You obviously missed it when they used the term “rompler“, derived from the old hardware drum unit days, such as the Roland R-8. Samplers easily have the ability to take your audio and do all sorts of crazy algorithmic things with it. Romplers pretty much play what they are given. Superior Drummer goes a bit more in between the two mainly due to some of its amazing pitch shifting capabilities to which they provide added realism. However, it is still not a sampler. As from Superior Drummer, I use Kontakt, Sampletank and even the Samplers in Logic Pro 11. I pretty much know how samplers operates. Superior Drummer is nowhere near that, nor is it supposed to be.
That it does a lot of things is one thing but that shouldn’t take away from getting the timing right and locked in. After all isn’t that the stock-in-trade of a drummer whether human or otherwise?
you are confusing two different areas. We are not talking about timing as far as drums go. We are talking about timing as far as changing sample rates from the standard 44.1 kHz to 48 kHz in the bouncing process. If you were actually familiar with what the bounce process is doing, you would see how complicated it becomes to match various kit pieces and bleed channels since it handles each file one at a time. See where we are going with this? If not, let me put this to you in a simpler way: each file is written separately. Therefore lining Them all up In a different sample rate is tricky. Therefore, they have to come up with some innovative solution to this bug. Because of how they do things, It is not as quick as you or the OP think. Coming up with a solution could break other bounce functionality. Plain and simple. ToonTrack I’m not the first company to have bugs as complicated as this. Logic has finally seen some 20 year old bugs getting fixed. The main reason behind the delay was because of the exact reason that fixing the one bug created 10 others.
The only reason I have no need to see the email exchanges between the OP and TT is because I can see right from this thread that the OP refuses to understand the fact that the bug could have underlying consequences and has nothing to do with the competency of the company itself. Even worse is that he takes this personally and has misguided beliefs about beta testing. Your decision to provide input with insults rather than information is not only unhelpful to the situation, it only serves to drag your own reputation through the mud. Next time, you should be more careful about what you post about others.
jord
Bear-Faced CowNo, it was trying to make it sound like it was user error
That’s not gaslighting.
No. You are trying to belittle how much of a problem this bug is, for whatever reason.
Wrong again. I said if they couldn’t fix the bug without causing more serious issues.
At least we all now know why you believe that you’re being gaslit.
jord
Bear-Faced CowAlmost every one I have worked with have worked in multiples of 44 for audio and 48 for video over the past 3o years. Many of the big name engineers that I have had the pleasure of knowing work with multiples of 44.
Regarding the gaslighting, (among other explanations) I was being told that the timing issues were caused due to time delay of the signal into different mics. There was a clear inability to even understand the problem, despite sending audio, sessions, videos etc. This took several weeks of back and forth to communicate a straightforward bug. You’re more than welcome to assume what you like without having read the emails or gone through the work in helping to try and get the bug resolved.
That’s not gaslighting. The fact that they were sending emails back and forth is an indication of the willingness to help. Sound like you are taking it more personal than it needed to be.
Whether that means another 5 years or 5 weeks is at Toontracks discretion and customers are more than entitled to hold their feelings on that. If a developer fixes it in a day, a customer might be thrilled. If it takes a year, it might be somewhat frustrating. If it’s 5+ years, how can anyone have faith it will get fixed at all?
You are totally missing the point.
jord
Bear-Faced CowJust checking through my emails, I believe I first reported the issue in 2019, but there was a LOT of back and forth to even acknowledge the bug. Eventually we got to this point:
IMO, waiting a year shows tremendous patience for a broken product. 5 years and counting is another level.
Again, they could have hit a snag. It’s not as clear cut as you think.
jord
Bear-Faced CowThere’s way too much noise in your post. Let’s grab the key points.
If the answer to fixing bugs was “well it might introduce more issues”, then nothing would ever get fixed.
Absolutely false. There are bugs that carry functional consequences if resolved and there are bugs that can easily be handled. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have point releases. Refusal to believe this is more a demonstration of your inexperience of software development in general.
What is a fair time frame if 5 years is asking too much?
The amount of time to fix a bug is irrelevant. Some bugs take longer to find an adequate solution. The VST bug was one example that took years to fix because an immediate fix would have broken a large number of project files. They finally found a solution that worked despite all of the time.
I am sure Toontrack are aware of the bug, because I was borderline gaslit…
I’ll stop that one right there. I don’t think you know the difference between gaslighting and fact finding. If someone is questioning your findings, they are not telling you that you’re making it up. So let’s put that into proper perspective.
can’t name a single other sampler that i’ve ever come across that cannot reproduce a sample at the location it’s supposed to. A sampler at is most basic level needs to be able to play back a sample when it is supposed to.
Keyword: A sample. Superior Drummer acts more more like a DAW in which is handles and processes many (sometimes 40 at a time) audio samples in various ways. It’s not a simple sampler. It’s not really a sampler at all.
There are several approaches to oversampling that are well understood and documented, and circumventing their shortcomings is also well understood.
We’re talking upsampling and not oversampling. And can you name one such methodology?
Why is there not even an official recommended guideline for a workaround or acknowledgement of the bug?
That’s standard practice in the SDLC. Which again sounds like you’re unfamiliar with.
The purpose of beta testers is to iron out bugs.
No it is not. The purpose is to test the software. Unless it is totally glaring, which this really isn’t, it’s not necessarily going to show on anyone’s radar.
This bug occurs at 48kHz which is an extremely common sample rate
Only for video. Audio standards deal specifically with multiples of 44.
And I can’t say I’ve been particularly thrilled with the process involved in getting it resolved
Your feelings are not relevant to the amount of time it takes to fix a bug. If they can fix it without breaking anything else, they will. Fixing bugs takes time. I’m current dealing with this with a company far bigger than ToonTrack. They fixed one process and broke 16 other processes. And it has nothing to do with audio.
Jord
Bear-Faced CowThis is not about making plug-ins. This is about DSP math and its concepts. And yes, I am fully aware of what it takes both mathematically and programmatically to change a sample rate between a non-multiple of the original sample rate. I’m also familiar in which the process in which Superior Drummer bounces. The process is indeed far more complex, bordering on complicated, when dealing with each file individually as opposed to summing it and then doing to upsample.
I asked you a very simple question which had nothing to do with how far back you go in time. It’s plain and simple that if you did report the bug five years ago and it was acknowledged then there is obviously a reason why it hasn’t been fixed and your beliefs on it have little to do with the reason why it is not been fixed. You seem to have difficulty believing that fixing one bug can create a series of other bugs. And it has nothing to do with making plug-ins. This is any type of software programming in general.
However, if this is the first time they are hearing of this bug, ToonTrack is listening on the forum. Damien, Petter and Olof are rather active participants on this forum, so they can tell you better if they know about it. And even more so, they can expound on it. Saying they should have known, or it should’ve been caught in beta-testing, is an absurd statement. All software has bugs and many are made known after release quite often by users as yourself. Further to that, bugs are weighed objectively as to their severity. Considering that this is considered functional with a workaround, it’s not as serious.
jord
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Thanked by: Scott EshlemanBear-Faced CowYes, it is a rather complicated process to upsample. It’s not as simple as telling CoreAudio “play at 48KHz”. It’s further complicated by the way they create their bounce.
The other stuff is moot and has nothing to do with the fact that this bug could be hidden in ball of tightly knitted code where fixing this could unravel the entire engine.
Considering that you are only a couple of posts in and have stated that this bug is five years old, did you report it to ToonTrack back then?
jord
Bear-Faced CowIt’s at the producer’s discretion as to what’s needed. Listening to this preset, stacking the rimshot would not sound more full, but rather would muddy a mix. All that frequency is not needed in a rimshot since the drummer is banging the hell out of the snare in a metal song. All that’s important is the short crack of the snare. In the parts where centre is playing, it’s probably less frenetic, thus more room.
jord
Bear-Faced CowIt has nothing to do with whether they care or not. It’s more about whether they can fix one bug without introducing 5 more potentially serious bugs.
Upsampling is a rather tricky programming process, especially when you are not going between multiples of the recorded sample rate, as you’ve experienced.
jord
Bear-Faced CowDid you uninstall EZ Keys using the Product Manager?
What version of EZ Keys does Logic’s plugin manager say is installed?
jord
Bear-Faced Cowif you were using a MIDI device with after touch, it might have happened by pressing down hard as you hit the note. The t happens.
jord
Bear-Faced CowIn addition to Brad’s suggestions, check both your Choke/Mute Trigger property box settings as well as the Choke All (AT) in the grid editor.
jord
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