MintberryCrunch
Participant
Topics Started: 25
Replies Created: 186
Has Thanked: 11
Been Thanked: 22
Here comes the answer to such hihat issues!
Here is an additional explanation on this:
Toontrack Variable Hihat –> “stepping”: unwanted open sound FIX
The Toontrack Hihat Engine along with the MIDI output from e.g. Roland modules is ineligible for “stepping” (= fast and continuously played pedal notes). The same operating principle which provides “hihat splashes” will add unwanted open-(pedal-) sound when playing “stepping” hihat lines.
My workaround* provides the ability to swap the hihat engine while playing (e.g. per pad stroke) : if you want to produce “hihat splashes” you’ll have to choose the original “Toontrack” engine ; if you want to play the “stepping” you’ll have to switch to my hihat engine which won’t allow transitions triggered by sheer hihat controller data.
My hihat engine part is individually settable to achieve any controller translation possible and therefore will match one-to-one with the set translation in e.g. Superior Drummer3. 🙂
*system requirements: Host DAW: “Cubase (Artist or Pro)” or “Ableton Live (Suite)” or “Bidule” (Bidule is the most affordable (95$), you can try the Demo versions of all mentioned hosts for free)
Why does SD3 show “Output latency” and “Buffer latency”? What does this mean? Any other VSTi app or DAW shows ASIO ouput latency: this is only one value. So what is “Buffer latency” and has it to be added to “Output latency”??
No Toontrack developer/expert can answer this question??? Weird!
Little update of my workaround here:
slowly closing the hihat (without generating a pedal note) will now mute the open sounds from the variable hihat at fully closed pedal position. This is quite important as e.g. Roland modules do not send a pedal note when slowly closing the controller pedal / motion unit… 🙂
Here comes the answer to such hihat issues! (as I think you’ll wait for ages for TT e-drumming fixes)
Hello Jorg, I’ve developed a midi workaround within the hosts (Cubase , Bidule , AbletonLive): You can play the variable hihat without SuperiorDrummer processing any CC data! So this will stop the unwanted behavior you describe and it will also stop hihat sound artefacts when slowly closing the pedal as described here. And of course you can customize the variable hihat and determinate the open-(or closed-)stage at any pedal positon (module’s CC input value) and/or skip stages you don’t want…
I’ll share my workaround and will give support for it via internet for a donation. So if you (or anybody else) is interested let me know by replying here.
3
Thanked by: daysDrums, pro audio and mikemullin“We have a plan to make a substatial update to the MIDI In/E-drums settings tab but it will not be part of the upcomming SD3.1.3 update that will be released soon (Hopefully). So, unfortunately, it will be some time until you will see any improvements for the CC-zone feature.“
So v3.1.5 has passed by and I am patient… Hope you don’t forget this!
Meanwhile I’ve met several people on internet forums who noticed “strange sounds” when slowly closing the hihat.
Example from the German DrummerForum: es “gab aber nur diese paar Samples und das gab auch so seltsame Klänge wenn man ein laaaaangsames Schließen simulierte“. Though he speaks of EZDrummer2, SD shows the same issue, and as SD is the flagship it should at least be improved (implemented the requested feature) here!
1
Thanked by: Shen GNo answer regarding such an essential e-drum feature? Hmm, seems that there are still very few software drummers who care about this…
BTW, are you developers aware of the fact that the CC-hihat in Ableton DrumRack/Sampler (“Session Drums”-packs “Club”, “Multimic”, “Studio”) works with nice crossfades (with adjustable value ranges – these CC value ranges trigger the crossfades) between the open-closed-stages? Next to the fact that CC alone does not trigger samples from different open closed stages (my requested feature) this is in a way again reducing any stuttering artefacts and supports making the transitions nicely smooth. Regarding this feature the Ableton hihat engine is superior to SuperiorDrummer IMO… ?
@Olle said:
No. It is in the MIDI in/E-drums settings tab. You select an incomming note, e.g. 46, and then,
in the Mapping and Response window, assign articulations to CC-zones. I asked around
and it seems that the maximum is 3 zones and that is probably not enough for you. I think that
limit may be increased in some future update.
Thank you for this tip. I’ve checked this option and it would fit perfectly to my demand if CC-zones would be increased (to 8 for all possible hihat stages). PLEASE make this soon available with an update to fit all e-drummers’ needs and stay awesome!
Can you Toontrackers report something new concerning more (8?!) CC-zones for the mentioned hihat feature?
@Olle said:
No. It is in the MIDI in/E-drums settings tab. You select an incomming note, e.g. 46, and then,
in the Mapping and Response window, assign articulations to CC-zones. I asked around
and it seems that the maximum is 3 zones and that is probably not enough for you. I think that
limit may be increased in some future update.
Thank you for this tip. I’ve checked this option and it would fit perfectly to my demand if CC-zones would be increased (to 8 for all possible hihat stages). PLEASE make this soon available with an update to fit all e-drummers’ needs and stay awesome!
>No. It is in the MIDI in/E-drums settings tab. You select an incomming note, e.g. 46, and then,
in the Mapping and Response window, assign articulations to CC-zones. I asked around
and it seems that the maximum is 3 zones and that is probably not enough for you. I think that
limit may be increased in some future update.
Ok, you mean that kind of PositionalSensing feature? I’ll check this out. But remember: a high detailed hihat has 8 open closed stages…
>Our CC-hihats, on the other hand, are not implemented in the samplers but
in the soundlibraries. Some sound expansions may have exactly the kind of CC-hihat
you are after, if that suits the sounds, e.g. electronic sounds.
Come on, you shall know what kind of hihats I mean (“the variable hihat set up to many open-closed-stages” (from my first post)): the high detailed ones, otherwise my claim does not make any sense
>Because they can’t do what we do, mainly because they use diskstreaming.
AddictiveDrums uses diskstreaming??? And what does this have to do with diskstreaming??
I really appreciate the SD hihat in its current state (as it is most authentical despite these “artefacts”) and I know you guys do a fantastic job and I really am a TT fanboy (as a drum teacher I always recommend TT software to my students) but can’t you realize that software drummers should have a choice to also get the CC hihat the way I’m after? Listen to my sound file if you still ask why
@Olle said:
There is a new feature in SD3 that allows the user to construct a CC controlled switch
of their own. It is mostly intended for positional triggering of cymbals but it could
probably be used in your situation too.
Are you talking about the “Hi-Hat Pedal Control” with its slider points? Then I cannot see this is in any context of my claim…sorry.
Dear developers at TT, please ask yourself why nearly all other manufacturers of drum sampler software implement that different variable hihat reaction.
“You are triggering the ‘Open 2’ articulation directly, not one of the ‘Trig’ notes, right?”
“Do you have a module attached and do you have a MIDI In/E-drums mapping Preset active?”
I use the Roland TD9 Preset so A#1 is the TipTrig articulation.
“I’m guessing you are not using the Trig scheme intended for opening and closing the HH via CC messages.”
Of course my CC messages are triggering the different open closed stages: why else would I achieve such a sound???
The issue is quite old: I already complained in 2014 on SD2 : https://www.toontrack.com/forum/superior-drummer-2-help/closing-variable-hihat-sounds-more-or-less-shaky/
The answer back then was the invitation to edit the CC curve but as I already said: “(ok, you might say: reduce the stages – but sometimes I want them!)”
If you still don’t know what I mean please compare the hihat CC reaction with AddictiveDrums or BFD – then you’ll easily learn the difference. And as I mentioned the variable hihat in these samplers does not react authentically [-> a max open stroke is only altered (muted) by the pedal articulation; increasing CC values (= relatively slow foot movement towards the closed position) won’t affect its release time!] BUT when playing e-drums I often prefer this behaviour because there won’t be any shaky or jittery sound.
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