MintberryCrunch
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Topics Started: 23
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MintberryCrunchIt seems the Roland Module is sending HiHat Closed Notes when moving the control pedal slowly, causing SD3 to retrigger samples incorrectly.
No. It’s very simple and described in posts #2566484 and #2566912 :
” It has nothing to do with any articulations other than the pedal note along with CC data. Roland modules do not send anything different than this when playing the pedal “stepping” ”
“The same operating principle which provides “hihat splashes” will add unwanted open-(pedal-) sound when playing “stepping” hihat lines.”
You will also eliminate unwanted trasitions from open to closed when using that (my) engine: a Variable Hihat engine what ignores sheer CC.
Generally speaking, the “hard” transitions will allways be there. The TT hihat engine featured its principle of function since it was founded. There are no drum samplers on the market that can or will smoothen them (the only exception is the CC-hihat in “AbletonLive DrumRack/Sampler” (i.e. “Session Drums”-packs “Club”, “Multimic”, “Studio”)) because of adjustable crossfade CC value ranges (on the other hand there are different minor issues with that AL hihat engine, such as a long ringing open hit won’t be affected by a more closed hit and rings until the sample ends (unless muted by a pedal note)).
The only chance: make these “hard” transitions not annoy you by using a hihat engine workaround built in a suitable DAW that will only affect a single fading open hit by the pedal note or by max closed pedal position (my engine will also provide the last-mentioned aspect as Roland modules do not send pedal notes when closing the hihat quite softly) ;). You can try building your own fix but I can tell you building that Variable Hihat fix which is able to work properly and consistently is not that easy!
You can of course avoid the open artifacts when playing the fast “stepping” by simply deleting the “Open pedal” articulation. This will work for players who can go without pedal splashes BUT without my workaround engine the transition artifacts mentioned will still be there! 😉
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Thanked by: DutchDoctorMintberryCrunchHere comes the answer to such hihat issues! 🙂
If you switch to my hihat engine (that I’ve developed to fix the issue) you will have the same behaviour as Roland module hihat without any nasty transitions from open to closed. And you will be able to play the “stepping” without annoying open artifacts because it won’t allow transitions triggered by sheer hihat controller data. 😉
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Thanked by: DutchDoctorMintberryCrunchIt sounds to me like perhaps your up stroke is triggering your tip trigger or one of the bell triggers….I am sure you can find the result you want, it just may take time. There is a velocity gate setting somewhere that will cut out the quietest hits but if you gate the bow you may loose dynamics or drop softer strikes from the bow. Good Luck!
It has nothing to do with any articulations other than the pedal note along with CC data. Roland modules do not send something different than this when playing the pedal “stepping”* .
Also, a velocity gate makes no sense in this regard.
Remember: we want to hold up these two aspects: 1. Pedal Splashes and 2. “Stepping” without open artefacts 😉
Have you seen the vid posted by the OP?
EDIT: I’m not talking about “crosstalk” tip articulation notes which of course can occur when playing (“stepping”) a VHx on hihat stand. 😉
MintberryCrunchHere comes the answer to such hihat issues!
Here is an additional explanation on this:
Toontrack Variable Hihat –> “stepping”: unwanted open sound FIX
The Toontrack Hihat Engine along with the MIDI output from e.g. Roland modules is ineligible for “stepping” (= fast and continuously played pedal notes). The same operating principle which provides “hihat splashes” will add unwanted open-(pedal-) sound when playing “stepping” hihat lines.
My workaround* provides the ability to swap the hihat engine while playing (e.g. per pad stroke) : if you want to produce “hihat splashes” you’ll have to choose the original “Toontrack” engine ; if you want to play the “stepping” you’ll have to switch to my hihat engine which won’t allow transitions triggered by sheer hihat controller data.
My hihat engine part is individually settable to achieve any controller translation possible and therefore will match one-to-one with the set translation in e.g. Superior Drummer3. 🙂
*system requirements: Host DAW: “Cubase (Artist or Pro)” or “Ableton Live (Suite)” or “Bidule” (Bidule is the most affordable (95$), you can try the Demo versions of all mentioned hosts for free)
MintberryCrunchWhy does SD3 show “Output latency” and “Buffer latency”? What does this mean? Any other VSTi app or DAW shows ASIO ouput latency: this is only one value. So what is “Buffer latency” and has it to be added to “Output latency”??
No Toontrack developer/expert can answer this question??? Weird!
MintberryCrunchMintberryCrunchLittle update of my workaround here:
slowly closing the hihat (without generating a pedal note) will now mute the open sounds from the variable hihat at fully closed pedal position. This is quite important as e.g. Roland modules do not send a pedal note when slowly closing the controller pedal / motion unit… 🙂
MintberryCrunchHere comes the answer to such hihat issues! (as I think you’ll wait for ages for TT e-drumming fixes)
Hello Jorg, I’ve developed a midi workaround within the hosts (Cubase , Bidule , AbletonLive): You can play the variable hihat without SuperiorDrummer processing any CC data! So this will stop the unwanted behavior you describe and it will also stop hihat sound artefacts when slowly closing the pedal as described here. And of course you can customize the variable hihat and determinate the open-(or closed-)stage at any pedal positon (module’s CC input value) and/or skip stages you don’t want…
I’ll share my workaround and will give support for it via internet for a donation. So if you (or anybody else) is interested let me know by replying here.
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Thanked by: daysDrums, pro audio and mikemullinMintberryCrunch“We have a plan to make a substatial update to the MIDI In/E-drums settings tab but it will not be part of the upcomming SD3.1.3 update that will be released soon (Hopefully). So, unfortunately, it will be some time until you will see any improvements for the CC-zone feature.“
So v3.1.5 has passed by and I am patient… Hope you don’t forget this!
Meanwhile I’ve met several people on internet forums who noticed “strange sounds” when slowly closing the hihat.
Example from the German DrummerForum: es “gab aber nur diese paar Samples und das gab auch so seltsame Klänge wenn man ein laaaaangsames Schließen simulierte“. Though he speaks of EZDrummer2, SD shows the same issue, and as SD is the flagship it should at least be improved (implemented the requested feature) here!
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Thanked by: Shen GMintberryCrunchNo answer regarding such an essential e-drum feature? Hmm, seems that there are still very few software drummers who care about this…
BTW, are you developers aware of the fact that the CC-hihat in Ableton DrumRack/Sampler (“Session Drums”-packs “Club”, “Multimic”, “Studio”) works with nice crossfades (with adjustable value ranges – these CC value ranges trigger the crossfades) between the open-closed-stages? Next to the fact that CC alone does not trigger samples from different open closed stages (my requested feature) this is in a way again reducing any stuttering artefacts and supports making the transitions nicely smooth. Regarding this feature the Ableton hihat engine is superior to SuperiorDrummer IMO… ?
MintberryCrunch@Olle said:
No. It is in the MIDI in/E-drums settings tab. You select an incomming note, e.g. 46, and then,
in the Mapping and Response window, assign articulations to CC-zones. I asked around
and it seems that the maximum is 3 zones and that is probably not enough for you. I think that
limit may be increased in some future update.
Thank you for this tip. I’ve checked this option and it would fit perfectly to my demand if CC-zones would be increased (to 8 for all possible hihat stages). PLEASE make this soon available with an update to fit all e-drummers’ needs and stay awesome!
Can you Toontrackers report something new concerning more (8?!) CC-zones for the mentioned hihat feature?
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