Billy 86EZ Drummer expansions are about half the cost of SD3 expansions, and their pages say they work in SD3. Curious to know what are the functional differences in SD3 of using EZ Drummer Expansions vs. SD3 Expansions. Given the cost difference, one would assume there are some notable differences in functionality, sound quality, etc. Yes/no? Thanks.
SD3 3.4, EZK2.1.3, EZ Bass 1.3.1, Win11, i9/9900, all SSDs, 64g RAM, Cakewalk, Studio One
Tom ConnerThere is a comparison near the bottom of this page that covers some of it. No picture of the drumset, no instrument bleed, less microphones, less samples, less articulations, etc… https://www.toontrack.com/product/superior-drummer-3/
My 2 cents would be drink a few less $8 starbucks coffees per month and stick with SDXs. Also, they are discounted on various sites like Thomann.de and Reverb (my fav place to buy them).
DWe six piece kit, Roland BT-1s w/WT-10s, RME Fireface interface, JH Audio IEMs w/Fiio Amp, Porter & Davies transducer, Razer 16 laptop, SD3 (State of the Art, Stockholm, Hitmaker, Legacy of Rock, Decades, Death & Darkness, Fields of Rock, Stories)
Bear-Faced CowThere are plenty of differences between EZXs and SDXs. EZXs consist of mainly the key common articulations. They have only a few bleed channels. And if I’m not mistaken, they are 16 Bit Audio, Which will account for a reduced dynamic and velocity range.
That being said, I have a few go to EZX packs that I use because they sound amazing in a mix. They are great for when you need something quick in a mix as what they do contain make them pretty workable in many songs.
jord
2
Thanked by: Brad and drumjack52
BradThere are plenty of differences between EZXs and SDXs. EZXs consist of mainly the key common articulations. They have only a few bleed channels. And if I’m not mistaken, they are 16 Bit Audio, Which will account for a reduced dynamic and velocity range.
That being said, I have a few go to EZX packs that I use because they sound amazing in a mix. They are great for when you need something quick in a mix as what they do contain make them pretty workable in many songs.
jord
I started writing this and then got called away, but the other 2 insightful answers pretty much cover it.
The difference in sound is subjective at the best of times. EZDrummer EZXs are 16bit as opposed to SDXs that are 24bit. So is there quality difference in sound? In a mix, with other instruments? Maybe, maybe not. If the session is a jazz trio where there’s a lot sonic space for all the instruments, you might notice it. In contemporary music, tracks/intruments are being tweaked to fit in a mix, sometimes within a very narrow band. Will you notice it? I dunno. Functionality, well you have more access to some of the components that make up presets. (EQ Compression, etc). They don’t have the nice EZDrummer graphics when opened within SD3, my customers don’t care about it, and although, as a graphic designer as well, I appreciate the care that goes into rendering the UI it’s the end product that matters. Jord nailed it with what he said. Sometimes the heavy lifting is done ahead of time by Toontrack and with minimal fuss you can get something that works great, 2 channels in, no fuss, no muss.
My own workflow, unless I am looking for something super specific (like the “In The Air Tonight” type drum machine: Hit Maker Machines SDX)…. I usually start composing with EZDrummer and then if I need bigger, deeper, higher, wider…. whatever…. can’t quite dial in the right sound, I’ll take the same track from EZDrummer, drag into SD3 and go from there.
Mac Studio M1 Max, RAM 64 GB, 1TB Drive, OSX 12.x/13.x and Windows 10 (VM)
DAW: Studio One Pro (always up to date)
DTX Express III (Extreme triggers), Nektar LX88
OWC Thunderbay Mini (4 X 1TB Sata SSD), Express 4M2 (4 X 2TB M.2 SSD), Envoy Express (1TB M.2 SSD)
Presonus Quantum, Faderport & Faderport 8
Black Lion Sparrow Mk2 A/D, FMR-RNP-RNC, MIDI Xpress 128, BM5A, KRK VXT4, Equator D5
2020 Macbook Pro 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD Audio(mobile rig)
1
Thanked by: Bear-Faced CowTom ConnerMaybe an unpopular take: 16 bit audio has 96dB of dynamic range and is plenty for any song or instrument. Each 10dB represents a doubling in volume. 24 bit audio is 144dB of range and likely unnecessary. And for sample rate, humans with the best ears can’t hear above 20kHz, which a 44.1kHz sampling rate captures with room to spare. And that 20KHz maximum audible frequency gets lower with age and frequent exposure to loud things like drums and live music.
So IMO we are overdoing it with digital audio above 16 bit and 44.1kHz. DW SoundWorks for example is 24 bit and 92KHz. It is good marketing since most consumers tend to think larger numbers are always better. Unfortunately we are paying with massive file sizes and longer load times for no audible difference.
There are various online digital audio quality tests you can try to see what you think.
DWe six piece kit, Roland BT-1s w/WT-10s, RME Fireface interface, JH Audio IEMs w/Fiio Amp, Porter & Davies transducer, Razer 16 laptop, SD3 (State of the Art, Stockholm, Hitmaker, Legacy of Rock, Decades, Death & Darkness, Fields of Rock, Stories)
drumjack52Tom: what you are missing is headroom. You always want to have more than you think you need. You may not hear it but the difference is there. You never want to get close to the limits of anything. Also keep in mind intersample peaks – slack off on the overhead (oversampling) and you’ll hear distortion. It’s like ram and money – you can never have too much of either. I’d rather be in the middle of things than try and live on the bleeding edge as you’ll get cut by it sooner or later.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
2
Thanked by: Brad and Bear-Faced CowBear-Faced CowTo expand upon what Jack is Saying, sampling at a higher sample rate and bit depth has little to do with human hearing in this case. A higher sample rate provides a horizontal resolution, providing more hit points on higher frequency while a higher bit depth gives you a greater vertical resolution which is more prominent at lower volumes. For most rock music, you can get away with 16 bit resolution since the drums are loud which are evident in packs from Bob Rock and Jay Ruston. For jazz, 24 bit resolution is better to which an SDX such as Jazz Sessions are more appropriate. As far as sample rate goes 44.1 kHz works fine because beyond a certain frequency drums get irritating in a mix and easily cause ear fatigue.
jord
1
Thanked by: BradBilly 86I really appreciate the thoughtful responses. Love SD3 and the SDXs I own — which cover a lot of ground. Most recent pickups – Stories and State of the Art – are amazing. Love the flexibility and control. Love the quality. I’ll stick with SDXs. Oh… and though I live in Starbucks’ hometown of Seattle, I drink all my coffee at home – no $8 coffees for me! 😁
SD3 3.4, EZK2.1.3, EZ Bass 1.3.1, Win11, i9/9900, all SSDs, 64g RAM, Cakewalk, Studio One
1
Thanked by: BradBradI really appreciate the thoughtful responses. Love SD3 and the SDXs I own — which cover a lot of ground. Most recent pickups – Stories and State of the Art – are amazing. Love the flexibility and control. Love the quality. I’ll stick with SDXs. Oh… and though I live in Starbucks’ hometown of Seattle, I drink all my coffee at home – no $8 coffees for me! 😁
Not far from me then… just across the border nearVancouver…. and yeah bought a new italian espresso machine…. stay at home shots….
Mac Studio M1 Max, RAM 64 GB, 1TB Drive, OSX 12.x/13.x and Windows 10 (VM)
DAW: Studio One Pro (always up to date)
DTX Express III (Extreme triggers), Nektar LX88
OWC Thunderbay Mini (4 X 1TB Sata SSD), Express 4M2 (4 X 2TB M.2 SSD), Envoy Express (1TB M.2 SSD)
Presonus Quantum, Faderport & Faderport 8
Black Lion Sparrow Mk2 A/D, FMR-RNP-RNC, MIDI Xpress 128, BM5A, KRK VXT4, Equator D5
2020 Macbook Pro 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD Audio(mobile rig)
JohnAnd if I’m not mistaken, they are 16 Bit Audio
The 1st gen EZX:s are 16 bit, from the 2nd gen EZX:s became 18 bit and if I’m not mistaken 3rd gen EZX:s are 20 bit.
BR,
John
John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
2
Thanked by: Bear-Faced Cow and BradBear-Faced CowCool! I figured you would have the definitive on that. IOW, EZ Drummer 3 EZXs’ audio quality rivals that of BFD since at last check, they used 20 bit audio.
I’ve used the Signature, Acoustic Songwriter and Latin Cuban Percussion packs because they sound amazing in a mix.
On the other side of Canada around Toronto and like occasional Starbucks.
jord
2
Thanked by: John and BradTom ConnerRe: 16 bit vs 24 bit sample depth – please point me to any recording that gets close to using 96dB of dynamic range. 96dB is a 636 times increase in intensity, since it’s 2X volume every 10dB. 🙂
DWe six piece kit, Roland BT-1s w/WT-10s, RME Fireface interface, JH Audio IEMs w/Fiio Amp, Porter & Davies transducer, Razer 16 laptop, SD3 (State of the Art, Stockholm, Hitmaker, Legacy of Rock, Decades, Death & Darkness, Fields of Rock, Stories)
drumjack52Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit sample depth – please point me to any recording that gets close to using 96dB of dynamic range. 96dB is a 636 times increase in intensity, since it’s 2X volume every 10dB. 🙂
Symphonic music can easily outrun 96dB of dynamic range. Like I said earlier – why handicap the sound with a lower bit rate? Better to have more range available than you need.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
1
Thanked by: Bear-Faced CowBear-Faced CowRe: 16 bit vs 24 bit sample depth – please point me to any recording that gets close to using 96dB of dynamic range. 96dB is a 636 times increase in intensity, since it’s 2X volume every 10dB. 🙂
It has nothing to do with how loud a recording is, but how clean it is at low volume. 16 bit Audio will distort at lower volume. That is why using 24 bit, or even better 32 bit float, Audio is more optimal for recording and mixing.
And as far as your decibel calculations, it reads like you just looked that up on ChatGPT.
jord
1
Thanked by: drumjack52
KorkenI recommend this video (and short description) from Ian Shepherd, who shows in a very didactic way that, if done correctly, a song in 8 bit and then in 24 bit will have EXACTLY the same information regarding music (proved with null test) but (very) different noise floor. That is why Jord says “…nothing to do with how loud a recording is, but how clean it is at low volume. 16 bit Audio will distort at lower volume”. But again: if done the right way. That is the reason that recording, mixing and mastering in 24 bit is very recommendable against 16. One can go to 16, but only after the mixing and mastering is done in (preferably) 24 bit, or more.
1
Thanked by: Mark KingBear-Faced CowThat is the reason that recording, mixing and mastering in 24 bit is very recommendable against 16. One can go to 16, but only after the mixing and mastering is done in (preferably) 24 bit, or more.
You don’t mix in 24 bits. You bounce into 24 bit. Almost every modern DAW will use 32 bit float internally for audio channels and 64 bit float buses and output channels for mixing.
jord
1
Thanked by: drumjack52No products in the cart.
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