Tight Tip Hi-Hat not triggering

[Paul Owen]

I’m going through the setup of SD3 to get my TD-25KV working properly, but I’m struggling to get a tightly closed hi-hat sound. In SD2, simply selecting the ‘close’ or ‘close more’ setting would fix it, but this isn’t working with SD3.
I’ve reset and calibrated the hi-hat settings on the TD-25, and it works perfectly in itself (i.e. using the built in sounds in the drum brain and not SD3), but using SD3, with the pedal tightly closed, I’m getting a ‘closed’ sound, not a ‘tightly closed’ sound.
Can you please suggest how I can fix this?

Many thanks.

Topic

[John]

Hi,

if you record the CC data, do you get the full spectrum from 0 to 127 when you open and close?
Are you triggering the correct note for the Tip Trigger? Which note?

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Mark King]

The problem with the Roland modules or at least the TD25 and my TD30 is it takes a huge effort to get the full closed. Have you tried to manually change it? My TD30 was properly calibrated yet i could barely fully get the full swing pressing as hard as possible. Yes it played internal sounds well but a bit odd. Anyway my offset was 47 and I upped it to 65 and all is well. The internal sounds still sound ok too. I did try adjusting manually the positions on SD3 which did work a bit but not as good as adjusting in the module. Does the TD25 have the offset setting?

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

[Mark King]

AThe problem with the Roland modules or at least the TD25 and my TD30 is it takes a huge effort to get the full closed. Have you tried to manually change it? My TD30 was properly calibrated yet i could barely fully get the full swing pressing as hard as possible. Yes it played internal sounds well but a bit odd. Anyway my offset was 47 and I upped it to 65 and all is well. The internal sounds still sound ok too. I did try adjusting manually the positions on SD3 which did work a bit but not as good as adjusting in the module. Does the TD25 have the offset setting?

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

[bambam_4]

Hi,

I also own a Roland TD-25KV and have exactly the same issue that Paul described. Hi-Hat tightly closed worked fine with Roland presets and “close more” in SD2. In SD3 it works with the Default preset but changing the setting to Roland doesn’t let the HH play a tightly closed sound. All other mappings are just fine.

How can I adjust the HH sound to get a tight closed HH even with the Roland presets?

Thanks in advance and best regards
Juergen

[Mark King]

You need to change the offset in the TD25 settings as I mentioned above. Have you tried it?

I’ve just looked at the manual and can’t see offset but you can adjust it manually on the VH11 itself. I do agree with you though that the preset is plainly not working correctly as the Roland preset on SD2 worked for me fine with the more closed setting and it doesn’t on SD3

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

[Mark King]

I’ve just taken a look at my sons VH11 settings admittedly on a TD30 but the CC MAX default is 90. If you change this to 127 it will work. That’s if this is a setting on a TD25

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

[Paul Owen]

The CC range for the HH pedal goes from 0 to 90. I tried changing the “HH note border” to 127, which is set to 90 by default in the TD25, but it makes no difference to the CC range in SD3.
The tip trigger is triggering note value 8, so that’s correct.

Unfortunately there is no way to set the offset on the TD25 as Mark suggested, as you only have a thumb wheel on top of the HH itself with which to adjust the calibration (which from looking at a TD30, would be what Mark refers to as the offset). But again, this makes no difference to the CC messages received by SD3.

It’s very frustrating to not be able to get the tight closed HH, as the rest of SD3 works flawlessly and sounds fantastic.

[bambam_4]

Hi Mark and Paul,

thanks for answering / replying, I just figured it out by myself in parallel to Paul. I don’t have a “CC MAX ” setting in the TD-25. There is a setting called HH Note# Border which seems to be responsibe to switch from open to closed HH at a certain value => yes default value in TD-25 = 90. Makes no difference to adjust it to 127, you get an even opener sound then.
BUT:
The root cause is that the roland mapping maps the 22 => 7 and 42 to a 8. That is the reason for the open sound even when pressing the foot on the pedal like crazy!

I just copied the “Roland” mapping to a user mapping and changed the 22=> 7 (Roland mapping) to 22 => 22 and the 42 (HH closed tip) => 8 (Roland Mapping) to 42 => 42.
Works perfect even without changing the TD-25 setting.

Maybe someone can confirm it works with a TD-25, for me it does …

Best regards
Juergen

[Paul Owen]

Hi Jurgen,

I’m trying your solution, but setting 42 => 42 makes no difference unfortunately – the closed HH still sounds semi open. Did you change anything on your TD25 brain?

Regards,
Paul

[Paul Owen]

Toontrack – any clues?

SD2 works flawlessly with the TD25, so why doesn’t SD3 work properly? This new benchmark in drum software seems to have taken a backward step.

[Olof Westman]

Just do the same thing in SD3 as you do in SD2 and it will work the same.

Olof Westman - Toontrack
Coder

[Paul Owen]

But it doesn’t, that’s the point. Selecting ‘more closed’ in SD2 fixes the problem. Doing that in SD3 makes no difference.

[Olof Westman]

You are right. It seems that the delimiter handle for the Closed/Tight
transition is set to 100 instead of 90 or 89. That won’t suit you.
I have not been involved in the E-drums tab so I don’t really know
how one would conveniently adjust those handles. Grabbing the
lowest one and bringing it up does not move the others so
I guess you have to move them all one by one. Well, at least
the lowest 4.

Olof Westman - Toontrack
Coder

[Paul Owen]

Thanks Olle. I’ve mean playing around with the Hi-Hat Pedal Control following your reply, and I can get it to work that way. I’m assuming once that’s saved as a preset, that will load automatically every time?

Many thanks,
Paul

[Olof Westman]

I should hope so. At least that is the intended behaviour.

Olof Westman - Toontrack
Coder

[Author]

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