The Classic EZX Volume Issue?

[Ian Farlow]

I am running EZdrummer on a Windows 7 64-bit machine (fully updated) inside Cakewalk Sonar X1 Producer 64-bit. I have EZdrummer updated to the latest version (1.3.1), and have the following EZXs beyond what ships with EZdrummer:

[*]Drumkit from Hell
[*]Latin Percussion
[*]The Classic

I created a new project and loaded EZdrummer. I then loaded The Classic (not the 4 mic setup) and began playing my keyboard to listen to the sounds of the drum kit. Immediately I noticed that the volume was very quiet. I recorded a simple drum track anyway to test the setup further. When I played back the MIDI track I recorded, the drums were still very quiet. I reloaded EZdrummer and The Classic, but the situation was the same. I then switched from The Classic to Drumkit from Hell (without modifying the MIDI track I recorded) and the volume was at the correct level. I switched to the default drum kit that ships with EZdrummer, and the volume was still at the correct level. I then re-loaded The Classic, and the volume was, once again, quiet.

It’s as if The Classic doesn’t respond to recorded MIDI in the same way that the other EZXs do, and this is quite frustrating. I have not changed the mixer inside EZdrummer, and I have not changed the mixer inside Sonar X1. To be clear, I realize that I can adjust levels with either (or both) of these mixers, but when I use a clean, untweaked environment with an untweaked EZX, I expect the volume of The Classic to match the volume of all the other EZXs I have. Currently, this is not the case, and The Classic is noticeably quieter than the other EZXs.

The strange thing is that if I use the mouse and click on each drum in the kit in the plugin window, the volume is at the correct level, and if I use the pre-installed MIDI loops, the volume is at the correct level there as well. The volume is wonky only when I record MIDI myself. Again, this exact same MIDI track that I recorded plays at the correct volume with Drumkit from Hell, so why is The Classic having difficulty with volume?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as The Classic is currently useless for me with this volume issue. I can hardly hear the drums when I am trying to record them (yeah, the volume is that low).

Ian Windows 7 64-bit, 8 GB memory, Sonar X1 Producer

Topic

[Dave Modisette]

By chance, are you using any drum maps that you may be changing for the different kits?  I don’t recall The Classic being that low in volume or I’m sure someone else would have noticed it by now.  The EZXs do vary somewhat over the velocity range but they should work with a minimum amount of tweaking. 
 
Have you tried using a velocity offset to bring the louder samples out?

Dave Modisette www.gatortraks.com www.plasticsamerica.com http://www.gatortraks.com/forum

[Ian Farlow]

I am not using drum maps, at least not that I’m aware of. And no, I have not attempted to adjust any velocities. I would have expected the volumes to be the same across all of the EZXs as a general starting point. The problem as I see it is that if I adjust velocities/volume for The Classic so that it sounds right and down the road decide to switch the drum set to Drumkit from Hell (for example), the velocities and volumes are going to be wildly out of alignment. I realize that I will likely have to tweak volumes when changing drum sets… that’s not the issue. The issue is that all of the custom tweaking to get The Classic working like the other drum sets means that moving between drum sets is going to be a big pain.

Additionally, I just don’t understand why the volumes (or perhaps it’s response to velocity) are so different between The Classic and all the other EZXs I have installed.

Frustrated.

Ian Windows 7 64-bit, 8 GB memory, Sonar X1 Producer

[Scott]

You’ll need to post some audio examples as, like Dave posted, there haven’t been reports of ‘very quiet’ Classic EZX reports other than yours.

In addition, if you say that mouse clicking on the kit pieces trigger the proper volume. Mouse clicking triggers velocity 127 which is the highest (loudest) velocity layer. Can you let us know the velocities of the MIDI that is ‘very quite’?

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Ian Farlow]

I will create a simple drum track tonight and record the audio from The Classic and Drumkit from Hell so everyone can hear what I’m hearing. I’m beginning to wonder… if the mouse clicks on the drum graphics trigger a velocity of 127, and The Classic sounds as loud as Drumkit from Hell using the mouse, then is it possible that The Classic has a sharp dropoff in interpreting velocities? In other words, say a note plays with a velocity of 127. Both DfH and TC sound basically as loud as each other. Then at a velocity of 120, again they basically sound the same. Then at 110, DfH sounds much louder that TC. Does that theory make sense as I describe it?

Thanks for the help, by the way. I am really eager to get this working.

Ian Windows 7 64-bit, 8 GB memory, Sonar X1 Producer

[Ian Farlow]

http://www.iroshai.com/temp/toontrack/test_midi.mid
http://www.iroshai.com/temp/toontrack/test_mp3.mp3

I have attached links to a MIDI file and the bounced audio file of a drum track I put together. The first half of the audio is Drumkit from Hell, and the second half is The Classic. Both EZXs are playing the exact same MIDI track, and no volumes, velocities, effects, etc. have been modified between the two EZXs. In other words, all I did was take a MIDI track out of a song I am working on and put in on two tracks in a new project. One track had EZdrummer with Drumkit from Hell loaded, and the other had EZdrummer with The Classic loaded. I did not add any effects to either track. I did not modify the volume settings on either track (either in Sonar or EZdrummer). I did not edit the velocities on either track. You should be able to hear a distinct difference in the volume between the first half and the second half. You should also note in the MIDI file the velocities and how Drumkit from Hell handles them just fine while The Classic is almost muted. Furthermore, the MIDI track I used was originally recorded by hand via a keyboard (not a drumset), just so you know.

Thanks again for your help with this.

Ian Windows 7 64-bit, 8 GB memory, Sonar X1 Producer

[Jym Feat]

but the levels aren’t that different, really: in your mp3 rendition, the difference is less than 3 dB measured peak to peak; or 2.4 dB measured from RMS levels… there’s no cause for alarm!

[Scott]

ORIGINAL: ifonline

http://www.iroshai.com/temp/toontrack/test_midi.mid
http://www.iroshai.com/temp/toontrack/test_mp3.mp3

I have attached links to a MIDI file and the bounced audio file of a drum track I put together. The first half of the audio is Drumkit from Hell, and the second half is The Classic. Both EZXs are playing the exact same MIDI track, and no volumes, velocities, effects, etc. have been modified between the two EZXs. In other words, all I did was take a MIDI track out of a song I am working on and put in on two tracks in a new project. One track had EZdrummer with Drumkit from Hell loaded, and the other had EZdrummer with The Classic loaded. I did not add any effects to either track. I did not modify the volume settings on either track (either in Sonar or EZdrummer). I did not edit the velocities on either track. You should be able to hear a distinct difference in the volume between the first half and the second half. You should also note in the MIDI file the velocities and how Drumkit from Hell handles them just fine while The Classic is almost muted. Furthermore, the MIDI track I used was originally recorded by hand via a keyboard (not a drumset), just so you know.

Thanks again for your help with this.

A few things.

First, if you just load the Classic EZX and the DFH EZX without trying to at least adjust the Mixer settings you will notice a volume difference. The Top snare channel volume in the DFH EZX is set to unity whilst the Classic EZX Top snare channel is set to -3db.

Second, the DFH EZX incorporates a ‘rimshot’ articulation in the highest velocity layers of MIDI note #38 to give that shotgun type ‘pop’ sound that cuts through a mix in the metal genre. The Classic EZX does not include ‘rimshot’ articulations incorporated in the highest velocity layers of note #38. If you change MIDI note #38 to note #40 (Rimshot) in the Classic EZX, you will get a more similar sound as well as volume.

Third, these 2 EZXs are very different in terms of the way the drummer hit the drums as they are aimed at 2 very different genres. DFH EZX was premixed to cut through a dense metal mix and more processing was done to achieve that goal. More compression and eq was applied to the samples to give it a more appropriate sound for the metal genre. On the other hand, the Classic EZX was not designed or premixed with the ‘metal’ genre in mind so the overly bright snares in the DFH EZX at velocity 100 will sound a bit louder than a snare in the Classic EZX as the snare in the Classic EZX wasn’t processed similarly. The processing does contribute to the brightness and punchyness of the DFH EZX, in addition to the ‘rimshot’ sound.

I think you’ll find that some adjustment is needed in the EZD mixer to adjust for volume when comparing any 2 EZXs.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

1

Thanked by: Laurent Bruning

[Dave Modisette]

I just went through the majority of EZX kits and I would say that there is varied volume levels on each kit.  In fact there is varied volumes within the kits.  In the case of DKFH vs The Classic, I would say that it is more to the side of DKFH is too loud compared to the rest of the libraries rather than the Classic is too low.  So, I would generalize this is “as expected” behavior and just adjust the volume on the mixer.  It’s pretty much as expected from different kits and performing artists which explains why the variation in snare drum levels within an EZX.  

It is quite easy to highlight all the mixer channels and then grab a fader and do a volume change as a group so I think that would be your best remedy for the difference in volume levels.  Once you established your preference then set up a User Preset in the Mixer and you’ll be have a head start the next time you use the Classic.

Dave Modisette www.gatortraks.com www.plasticsamerica.com http://www.gatortraks.com/forum

[Whitten]

Yes, agreeing with several preceding posts.
As well as a slight velocity difference, one huge difference is tone.
The DFH product is bright and hard. It’s a rock drumkit sampled for use in dense rock mixes.
The Classic is designed to be warmer and fuller. less emphasis on bright rimshots and clicky bass drums.

In editing and customizing it’s possible to dial back the attack of DFH, and likewise dial in some more aggressive attack in The Classic, but played right out of the box, both products perform to the goals they set out to achieve.

[Derrick60]

Hi, fairly new at all this and much of what was said above is beyond me.  Just upgarded from 2 to v3 I use very basic backing tracks for our acoustic duo. I find without adjusting velocity on every instrument the volumes between tracks is huge . We want to set 40 or so drum tracks at all the same volume. Is there an easy way?

EZdrummer version: 3.0.0
Operating system: Windows 11

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