mbunkinHello all,
I might not have the right terminology, as I am not a professional drummer, but I’ve been making drum tracks for many years with a syncopated rhythm, or a back beat as I think it’s called. I’m learning Superior Drummer 3 now, with its superior library of grooves, but I can’t seem to find any way to have a syncopated tempo. There are no back beat rhythms even in “back beats MIDI”. It’s always straight 4/4. I would think that such a powerful drum engine would have some magic button that switches a straight tempo to syncopated, but I can’t find it.
Is there some feature I am missing, that would allow me to have a syncopated rhythm “magically” without editing the grid?
Bear-Faced CowIs it possible you mean a swing type of beat? If so, that is accomplished in the grid editor.
jord
Mac McCormickIf you are indeed talking about Swing, see the attached photo
Cubase Pro, Korg Kronos, M-50, Hammond XK-1c, Toontrack SD3, EZBass w/lots of expansions, many VSL Vi's, Shreddage 3 everything, and shit-tons of FX plugins.
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Thanked by: mbunkinmbunkinAs I apologised earlier, I don’t know how drummers usually call it… It’s when the second beat comes a quarter earlier, for instance. Here’s an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGYKU7mbv74
Thank you for the screenshot, but the Swing slider does not move anything to the left for me. When it’s in the negative range, it does almost nothing – with some snap resolution options like 1/32 I managed to move one of the kicks a tad to the left, but in most cases moving it below zero doesn’t change anything. Is it normal, or is it a bug? Or I’m using a wrong groove? I just took a straight 4/4 ballad verse for a test.
Another thing about Swing is that it’s not quantised, so I’m not sure how to get quarter a beat with it, even if it did move kicks to the left, but that’s nitpicking. Hopefully its value is related to the tempo option somehow.
List UserGuymbunkin, my music theory is pretty rough but i generally can figure stuff out like this with a little trial and error. Truth be told, I’ve run into the same issue you’re running into regarding syncopated beats. You just have to get creative as to where you are feeling the “1”.
In terms of the youtube video you posted, if I were going to recreate this beat/feel, I’d probably just do so with time signatures.
The first measure is a measure of 3/4 and then it goes into standard 4/4 (i think, anyway). You could probably make a measure of 7/4 too, I suppose.
Any time you have an odd time mixed with the even time (of, say 4/4), you can get this syncopated effect/feel where the accented beat seems to be reversed. Personally, I love that kind of thing!
My apologies if this isn’t that helpful. I only chimed in because I’ve wanted to do the same thing and the only way to do it is with math, unfortunately.
“Feel” is weird and it’s hard to give it a name. I think that’s because the “name” actually comes from math/theory which, generally, isn’t that much fun to think about when coming up with every freaking part of a song. Especially if we’re used to relying on drummers to do that. That’s my sob-story anyway. Good luck!
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Thanked by: mbunkinBear-Faced CowThe video posted (a.k.a. the Sledge Hanmer theme) is not a swing beat, and I would not say is syncopated either. The beat is a typical 8th note pop beat no different than the 80’s synth pop tune “Take On Me”.
This beat can either be drawn directly on an 8th note grid, or you can probably use the Tap to Find feature to locate an already established group either within SD3 or in the web shop.
jord
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Thanked by: mbunkinmbunkinThank you everybody for your detailed and insightful answers, it seems that using the grid editor is the only way to achieve what I need. Hopefully in future versions Superior Drummer will support an easier way of getting this kind of a beat without manual editing, because I think it can be automated with a Swing-like feature. I grew up listening to that rhythm so I was quite surprised it’s so “rare” these days 🙂 Thanks everyone and happy drumming 🙂
Bear-Faced CowThere’s nothing rare about that beat. It’s one of the more common 8th note beats used in many songs. And certainly not difficult to pencil in on the grid. SD3 is more than capable of handling a simple beat like that.
jord
mbunkinDear jord, what I meant, is SD3 has no simplified interface for making this beat. The main difference of SD3 from competitors (including its predecessor) is the automation, which allows you to construct a drum track from blocks like lego and fine tune it with a few knobs. Editing the grid is fine by me, I’ve been making drum tracks manually for years. It’s just that I feel that this kind of a rhythm can easily be “tweaked” from a generic 4/4 groove with some knob or button. Just like the Swing feature works, without the need for manual editing. In the same innovative “easy” style that is specific to SD3. For example, the aforementioned Swing knob could do that when it’s in a negative range. That would be fab, no?
Bear-Faced CowCount to 8 and draw the hits on the grid. Alternatively, it can also be played with two fingers on a keyboard or MIDI pad controller
It doesn’t get any simpler.
We are not talking about the Purdie shuffle here.
jord
Christopher DuvalComing to this late, but I think I know what you are getting at, and it’s something I deal with a lot. You’re talking about a groove where the downbeat comes on the 4-and, vs. on the 1. A lot of the music I write uses this syncopation, and it would be so handy to have a set of grooves and fills that do this, or, as you suggest, provide an option to shift the downbeat.
I either have to play the syncopated grooves myself on my MIDI keyboard, or edit Toontrack MIDI parts after flying them into my DAW to create these grooves. And with fills, it’s not just one extra editing step, since the fills are constructed assuming a downbeat on the 1. So it gets a little tricky to edit them so they sound natural. and for me, it’s the fills (and ghost note grooves) that I need to really make my parts sound like they were played by a real drummer. It takes away some of the convenience of the MIDI libraries for me, since so much of what I write has this type of anticipation!
What do you say Toontrack, can you throw us a bone here??!
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