David Kennedy
Hi everyone
Ive been using SD3 with Pro Tools for around 3 years and am very happy with it. Im a strong musician but not a strong producer/engineer. I had engaged an engineer to teach me the basics and have since released a double CD using SD3 and have had every song played on free community radio, which has been a great testing space.
However, Im sure there’s more I could done to make my drums sound better, even though i took the finals into a studio for some basic mastering. I still only ran them onto one track in PT and didn’t buss them out but they seemed to sound ok to my ears.
I have a few questions: (sorry)
WhenI purchased SD3, what bundles (if any) came with it? I don’t want to double up if I buy new bundles?
When I listen to the drum bundles on the website (Rock Foundry for example) they sound amazing. Is that how we get them or do they have to be produced to sound like that?
When I purchased SD3, it took almost 5 days to download. These bundles are huge too, is it another case of a massive download?
Lastly will they automatically go into my drum files?
Although I love the massive choice available, there’s really only a couple of kits that I would use that will cover all music for me. I took the Beatles approach. In other words, that wrote great songs and were very versatile using on kit, bass and a couple of amps. It was more trying to capture the moment and make the band sound live and together, not fantastic production skills. Not disrespecting Mr Martin either btw lol )
Thank you and sorry for the multiple questions.
Cheers
Dave
drumjack52With SD3 I use multiout and sent to individual tracks in ProTools. Kick drum to one track, snare to another, hihat to another, etc. I also tend not to use presets and/or effects that are in SD3 but what I have in PT. At that I use mainly third party plugins in PT although those can work as well especially if you’re trying to save a bit of money. Going to separate tracks in PT will allow for a better/easier mixing process. Something to keep in mind is that mixing and mastering are two completely different processes. Get your mix sounding right (however you define that term) and THEN have mastering done.
A great thing that will help here is your room setup. Have you done any basic acoustic treatments? How are your monitor speakers set up? Are you working with speakers or headphones? Getting a good sound recorded is one thing but don’t dismiss processing afterwards. Start with a good sound and everything afterwards will go easier.
Download speeds – 5 days to download SD3 and the core library? Are you on dialup or what? No modern internet connection should ever be that slow. Even AOL just dropped support for 56k dialup recently. If your home setup won’t go fast try and find a library or such that has public wifi and do the download there. On installation use the Toontrack product Manager and it will place the files in the right place.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
2
Thanked by: Scott Eshleman and David KennedyDavid KennedyThanks heaps Jack.
No I’m not on dial up lol but it took that long and according to the forums, others had similar experiences. So no idea why it took that long.
I dont think i know enough to bus them out to individual tracks in PT. Also, i took my basic recordings to three studios and they kept saying there were ok as they were, so i dont know. Maybe they were just being polite.
I can email an MP3 if you like for you to listen to? let me know.
What bundles if any did SD3 come with? If i buy Foundries, I wont be doubling up will I?
Cheers
Dave
Bear-Faced CowWhat bundles if any did SD3 come with? If i buy Foundries, I wont be doubling up will I?
Any libraries that you may have purchased with Superior Drummer would show up in your purchased items within the Product Manager. That is the best place to look.
When I listen to the drum bundles on the website (Rock Foundry for example) they sound amazing. Is that how we get them or do they have to be produced to sound like that?
Yes, and no. A lot of the heavy lifting has been taken care of in the recording stage. However, there is still effort on your part that is required to make it fit into your song. There are presets that will help you along the way, and they are a good jumping off point.
Although I love the massive choice available, there’s really only a couple of kits that I would use that will cover all music for me. I took the Beatles approach. In other words, that wrote great songs and were very versatile using on kit, bass and a couple of amps. It was more trying to capture the moment and make the band sound live and together, not fantastic production skills
Sorry, but that doesn’t apply in your case. You are not capturing a band performance. You are capturing ideas jamming to a recorded groove. Even more so if you are recording your guitars direct into the computer and using a plug-in to shape them. If you are looking to make your drums sound better as above, then you need to rethink your approach.
You should not really be looking at the library as to what kit they have, but more which producer in studio recorded them. The same kit in different studios will sound different. Add the producer in to the mix and you’ll get even more difference of sounds. Also, in a recording situation, you are more likely to switch out the kick and snare in order to match the song.
jord
3
Thanked by: Scott Eshleman, David Kennedy and drumjack52drumjack52Thanks heaps Jack.
No I’m not on dial up lol but it took that long and according to the forums, others had similar experiences. So no idea why it took that long.
I dont think i know enough to bus them out to individual tracks in PT. Also, i took my basic recordings to three studios and they kept saying there were ok as they were, so i dont know. Maybe they were just being polite.
I can email an MP3 if you like for you to listen to? let me know.
What bundles if any did SD3 come with? If i buy Foundries, I wont be doubling up will I?
Cheers
Dave
Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.0
Operating system: Windows 10
Who is you ISP? I can’t conceive that it would take 5 days to do the SD3 and core library to download. As I remember it took me about 8 hours to do the whole download – I’m on Verizon FIOS. Are you by some chance on a wireless connection to your router? Or wireless internet instead of a hardline connection?
It’s easy to bus things out to separate tracks in PT. Set SD 3 to multichannel out and create as many tracks as you need in PT. Then in PT in the input field of the track select the SD3 track for the kit piece you want – kick for instance. The repeat for each additional kit piece. I’d suggest setting up a PT track preset that would contain the instrument track that holds SD3 and any requisite audio tracks for the number of kit pieces. That way you don’t have to reinvent the wheel as it were. I have a couple of PT track presets for certain SD3 SDX’s that take care of everything. One click and I end up with about 20 tracks all routed as I want. I’d suggest searching out some YouTube videos and spending some quality time over on the DUC (Pro Tools forum) asking questions.
As to the feedback you got from the studios I suggest they were being polite.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
1
Thanked by: David Kennedy
Shen GWhat bundles if any did SD3 come with? If i buy Foundries, I wont be doubling up will I?
While you can buy as a bundle, it’s optional and you should be able to see if you have any other SDX’s to choose from in SD3.
If your recording via playing e-drums, I highly recommend the SDX’s newer than but including Death and Darkness, as I find them much more natural to play on a kit. If programming it’s perhaps not such a big deal.
SD3 with Fields of Rock, Death and Darkness, Real to Reel, Legacy of Rock, Stories, Hitmaker, Decades, State of the Art, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.
1
Thanked by: David KennedyDavid KennedyHi Jack
It did take that long to download, but yes Im using wireless. Not on broadband though.
Thnks for the instruction re bussing out the SD3 tracks, I shall give it a go.
I spoke with two of the studios today and asked the question lol. Both hi end studio and good friends. The response I received was. ‘No, if we thought they needed work, we have certainly advised you of that. The drums sounded great. Not hi end studio quality, but certainly good enough for radio and CD, so that was nice to hear.
I had the final tracks mastered before they went off for pressing too.
I know they’re not prefect, but they are adequate given my skill set I think. I recon by downloading some new drums (Bob Rock Foundry) I might get a better result. I’ll have a go at bussing them out and then get an engineer mate of mine to perhaps set them up as a template. He’s worked with SIA and Mike Oldfield, so he should have some knowledge i think.
In terms of recording. I have quality vintage amps and cabs that are miked up and recorded, the bass is the same too. I play all instruments and have only used the sims on occasion.
I use piano roll in edit to record the drums. One beat/hit at a time. Very time consuming but it allows me to build the kit naturally. I dont use the grooves straight out of the box.
Is there a way I can send you an MP3 to listen to? Email, WhatsApp or FB Messenger?? I’d love to hear your thoughts.
Cheers
David Kennedy
David Kennedy
Thanks Jordan
Thanks heaps for your reply
In terms of recording. I have quality vintage amps and cabs that are miked up and recorded, the bass is the same too. I play all instruments and have only used the sims on occasion. I do my own harmonies, but the main vocals is someone else. We sold hundreds of CDs so I dont think they’re that bad
I use piano roll in edit to record the drums. One beat/hit at a time. Very time consuming but it allows me to build the kit naturally. I dont use the grooves straight out of the box.
Not beating my chest here. I know they’re not perfect, but I think most people dont realise its a drum machine.
Is there a way I can send you an MP3 to listen to? Email, WhatsApp or FB Messenger?? I’d love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks again
Cheers
David Kennedy (Australia)
drumjack52David: Using wireless and not on broadband – there’s the answer to your long download times. Is there some place you can go that has a faster connection? Maybe a mate’s house? Something to keep in mind when constructing a drum track is that a real drummer only has 4 limbs to hit kit pieces with – 2 arms and 2 legs. Unless you’re using some kind of setup like Rick Allen of Def Leppard. And there is one heck of a difference between a ‘drum machine’ and a library like available with SD3.
When I do drums in SD3 I treat it like I would a real physical kit with routing, effects, etc. Then on mixdown I have the option to rebalance kit piece levels to fit the tune.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
2
Thanked by: David Kennedy and Scott EshlemanBear-Faced CowLet’s dispel some of this…
I use piano roll in edit to record the drums. One beat/hit at a time. Very time consuming but it allows me to build the kit naturally
That’s not natural. Drums are a holistic instrument and should be seen the same way a drummer would see them. Not to mention that being natural doesn’t really have to do with how you enter that beat on the grid, but where you enter it on the grid.
I dont use the grooves straight out of the box.
Why not?
Not beating my chest here.
That depends on the answer to the above question.
I know they’re not perfect, but I think most people dont realise it’s a drum machine.
It’s not a drum machine. In fact, it is far from it. What makes it sound like a machine depends on you and your drum programming. You might be surprised that people may sense a robot-like beat, but are not telling you.
jord
3
Thanked by: Scott Eshleman, David Kennedy and drumjack52drumjack52Let’s dispel some of this…
I use piano roll in edit to record the drums. One beat/hit at a time. Very time consuming but it allows me to build the kit naturally
That’s not natural. Drums are a holistic instrument and should be seen the same way a drummer would see them. Not to mention that being natural doesn’t really have to do with how you enter that beat on the grid, but where you enter it on the grid.
I dont use the grooves straight out of the box.
Why not?
Not beating my chest here.
That depends on the answer to the above question.
I know they’re not perfect, but I think most people dont realise it’s a drum machine.
It’s not a drum machine. In fact, it is far from it. What makes it sound like a machine depends on you and your drum programming. You might be surprised that people may sense a robot-like beat, but are not telling you.
jord
Exactly what I’ve been trying to get across to the OP. The people he’s taking stuff to are just being charitable in their opinions. A studio that works with big-time artists doesn’t have time to do deep dives on something a person off the street brings in.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
2
Thanked by: Scott Eshleman and Bear-Faced CowDavid KennedyThanks for the response.
It doesn’t really matter how the end result is reached in my opinion.
Unfortunately, I have to work within the skill set I have and using the piano roll is the way I do it. I’m not a dummer, so it’s all I can do.
With all due respect, I’m fairly sure that the feedback I received, the CD sales and the high radio rotation cant be that bad, but that’s just me defending my work I guess. Youre more than welcome to to let me send a track and you can hear for yourself.
The forum is saying an MP3 is too large a file.
Anyway, its the sound and production of the drums I’m really keen on improving.
Thanks
D
David KennedyIll send you a couple of tracks through your FB page if that’s ok.
Cheers
D
David KennedyThanks.
Do you have a FB page and I can send you a couple of tracks through Messenger…..
Cheers
D
David KennedyHi Jordan
Ive managed to send a couple of tracks to you through FB Messenger. They are pre mastering and went to a studio to be mastered prior to pressing. I realise they sound ‘dull’ and that’s the point I’m trying to make.
I’m looking at buying some bundles to hopefully get a better result as i have limited production and mastering skills.
Cheers
David
drumjack52David: if you have music keyboard skills try using that to do your drum entry and then massage afterward if needs be. Not ideal but it can be made to work. Unless you’re doing something like math metal not every beats has to be perfectly aligned to the grid – not everyone is a Gene Hoaglan aka the Atomic Clock.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
1
Thanked by: David KennedyNo products in the cart.
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