bpjacobsenWhat causes really slow load times when loading a project? It was not this slow before and now when I just turned on SD3, it took what felt like 2+ minutes for the default project to finish loading. I’m running SD3 with eDrumin (3 ED8 and 1ED4 connected via a USB hub (unpowered) was told by Rob, the ED guy no need for a powered USB hub) on the following mini pc:
Beelink SER5 MAX Mini PC, AMD Ryzen 7 5800H (8C/16T, up to 4.4GHz), 32GB RAM 500GB PCle3.0 SSD, Mini Desktop Computer Support 4K@144Hz/Triple Display/WiFi6/BT5.2/DP+HDMI/Gaming PC
Any suggestions to speed up the load times? I know it’s partially b/c my kit is gigantic with let’s just say all ports on the above 4 ED units being utilized and most are split to us 2 pads per port, other than the snare, and 6 cymbals and hi hat. So I know the large the kit and the more instruments you have setup, the longer it will take to load them but again, it was significantly faster before. Not sure if the unpowered hub setup is what slowed it down? I don’t think the hub has anything to do w/ it as that is just for powering the ED units. The pc loads the presets. so what can I do to make this load faster?
drumjack52The MIDI connections should have nothing to do with session load times. Where are your samples located? You only give specs for one SSD – is that your system drive – is that where your samples are? If so that’s a very small drive to host your system and samples. Either get a bigger/faster SSD or a separate drive for samples.
Have you done any optimizations to your computer? Just because you have a gaming computer doesn’t mean it’s ok for music. Generally off the shelf Windows machines have a LOT of excess processes running that should be shut down. What version of Windows are you running? Also I’d get a powered USB hub.
What daw software are you running? How many tracks in the session. What preset in SD3 are you loading? Are you loading all to ram? Depending on what other processes you have running you could be running out of ram. I just looked up your computer and I seriously doubt you’ll get top notch performance out of it with music.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
thedrumdoctorWhat bit-size samples are you loading – 24 or 16? I found going to 16-bit loaded a lot quicker and used less RAM and I didn’t notice the sound difference.
I’ve got an eDrumin 10 + 4 linked together (no hub) and one USB goes into a Mac Mini with 2 internal SSDs – 1 for the OS and the other for storage.
I agree with the other reply about your drive size. SD3 stock samples chew up most of a 500Gb drive so you really want to add at least a 1Tb drive dedicated to hosting your music data. Use the main drive for OS and applications and get the SD3 samples onto an additional drive.
thedrumdoctor
bpjacobsenThe MIDI connections should have nothing to do with session load times. Where are your samples located? You only give specs for one SSD – is that your system drive – is that where your samples are? If so that’s a very small drive to host your system and samples. Either get a bigger/faster SSD or a separate drive for samples.
Have you done any optimizations to your computer? Just because you have a gaming computer doesn’t mean it’s ok for music. Generally off the shelf Windows machines have a LOT of excess processes running that should be shut down. What version of Windows are you running? Also I’d get a powered USB hub.
What daw software are you running? How many tracks in the session. What preset in SD3 are you loading? Are you loading all to ram? Depending on what other processes you have running you could be running out of ram. I just looked up your computer and I seriously doubt you’ll get top notch performance out of it with music.
Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS High Sierra (10.13)
- This post was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by drumjack52.
sorry, I should have mentioned, I am running a 1TB ssd for the OS. The stock library is on that internal but the other libraries are on an external 1tb SSD. I’m running it on 16 bit with the UA volt 4 Audio Interface.
As for powered USB, Rob who sells eDrumin said the following: “ED4 uses about 50mA, and each ED8 uses about 100mA, and a typically hub will use 100mA. Assuming you have on ED8 connected to your computer, a hub connected to that ED8’s host port, and then 2 ED8s and a ED4 connected to the hub, then you are using about 100+100+100×2+50 = 450mA, which is below the USB 2.0 maximum of 500mA. From the hub’s perspective, it’s using 100 + 100×2 + 50 = 350. Assuming you aren’t using any super long USB cables, then you shouldn’t need a powered USB hub.”
So why do you feel a powered hub is needed? I don’t think it has anything to do with load times though.
attaching screenshots showing task mgr which shows low cpu, disk, and ram usage. also system info, drives, and library paths. You will see that my libraries are on 1tb SSDs. only using the c drive for the OS. plenty of space left on that one. So this would appear to be neither a ram or drive space issue.
BTW, I’m not currently running a DAW. Just playing the drums directly via SD3.
drumjack52As a general rule I would NEVER use an unpowered hub. But you missed one very important thing – have you done any optimizations on your computer like getting rid of all the bloatware that Windows has? What other things do you have running? Do you have any wireless stuff running? How are the SSD’s with the samples connected to the computer? What exact SSD’s are you using?
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
JohnHi,
I would first check loading times of your Projects without anything else attached than the SSD drive.
If the very same SSD drive now has significantly lower performance than before, I would try to diagnose this first.
Do you have any AV software running?
BR,
John
John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
bpjacobsenAs a general rule I would NEVER use an unpowered hub. But you missed one very important thing – have you done any optimizations on your computer like getting rid of all the bloatware that Windows has? What other things do you have running? Do you have any wireless stuff running? How are the SSD’s with the samples connected to the computer? What exact SSD’s are you using?
Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS High Sierra (10.13)
You keep saying to use a powered hub but have not explained why. Does it help with load times? I don’t think it has anything to do with that as far as I am aware. See previous quote from Rob, the ED dude. He clearly explains the breakdown of mA these units consume and indicates a powered hub is not necessary. But I would love to hear more of your stance as to your reasoning for using a powered hub.
That aside, I went in and uninstalled a bunch of crap I don’t need. Also disabled WiFi since I’m using a wired connection via a GB mesh router.
I think possibly my issue with load time is in how I’m connecting the SSD with the libraries on it. I suspect I would get better performance if the libraries were on the SATA mounted SSD instead of being plugged in with a SATA/USB adapter to a USB port? Not sure why I didn’t think of this before. (DUH) So the SSD all of my add on (SDX packs) libraries are installed on and connected externally to a USB port is the following:
The smaller SSD which is the stock one inside the box just has windows on it basically. the added Sata mounted internal 1tb SSD has the stock SD3 library on it and all my external samples + my projects on this SSD: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09WMP5B5N/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
I also confirmed the projects that pull mostly samples from the SD3 library load significantly faster than the others so it makes sense that my main culprit is the method of connection for the SSD with the add on libraries. So I think one of my solutions is to just get a good 2TB SSD and use that for all libraries and samples. But now my question is this: Is it worth upgrading the internal 500gb PCLe3.0 SSD to a 2TB since that is technically faster than using the SATA SSD? Wonder how much faster it would be? Would rather not wait more than a few seconds for the samples to load. The SD3 projects via the SATA take about 6-10 seconds to load. The other ones on the USB external take sometimes between 20 and 40 seconds or so. I may see if the SD3 library will fit on the current PCLe drive so I can compare but I am not sure if it will be enough space. I need to check. And I realize even pcl 3 is approaching dated and the latest is pcl5. but I don’t need to spend a zillion dollars on the latest and greatest SSD either. Maybe a pcl4 but my pc only handles a 3 so I need to work with what I got for now until I can afford to upgrade down the road.
Please confirm if my above assessment is accurate or if anything else can be done to improve all this. Would like recommendations for a decent SSD or what to look for in those for best speed. Thanks all for the input/feedback/suggestions/wisdom etc. LOL
drumjack52The reason I say to use a powered USB hub is because you’re not sharing the 500ma from the computer amongst several devices; each device will have it’s own 500ma to draw from. I know you cite numbers from this Rob person but I’d not trust them. I have never had good luck with passive USB hubs. SATA to USB port – not good. What specific adapter are you using? What flavor of USB do you have? USB 2, USB3 or what? That’s important. Fast loading also depends on the size of the preset being loaded. For instance from a cold start with SD3 loading the DW kit from Death (of Death and Darkness) in 24 bit and loading all to ram takes a little over 20 seconds. SSD with samples as stated in my sig file.
Do you mean PCIE and not PCLE? What is PCLe3.0?
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
bpjacobsenThe reason I say to use a powered USB hub is because you’re not sharing the 500ma from the computer amongst several devices; each device will have it’s own 500ma to draw from. I know you cite numbers from this Rob person but I’d not trust them. I have never had good luck with passive USB hubs. SATA to USB port – not good. What specific adapter are you using? What flavor of USB do you have? USB 2, USB3 or what? That’s important. Fast loading also depends on the size of the preset being loaded. For instance from a cold start with SD3 loading the DW kit from Death (of Death and Darkness) in 24 bit and loading all to ram takes a little over 20 seconds. SSD with samples as stated in my sig file.
Do you mean PCIE and not PCLE? What is PCLe3.0?
Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS High Sierra (10.13)
The Death/Darkness, fields of rock, and legacy of rock libraries are connected to usb 3.2. There is only one usb 2 port on this pc which I just moved the unifying mouse/keyboard receiver to, but going to prob just get a powered hub so I can put it back into the front usb 3.2 port. the mouse connected to the back usb 2 is not working well, rather spotty connection. Anyway, I did copy the SD3 library to the PCI 3 and it def loads faster than the sata one though really only a difference of a few seconds maybe. But the Cattle preset in the Death library took nearly 60 seconds via the usb 3.2 connection.
Mark KingThat is a long time. I had some big kits when I was using a spinning disk drive and it would take about 45 seconds. How big are you talking about? and when loaded how many Gigabytes? It could be a file that is on a bad sector and is taking a lot of retries to load. Do you have a backup if the library? I always gave two locations for my libraries just in case. Does your computer support m.2 drives? Or maybe get a pci m.2 host card. I use two of these and the kits load in a couple of seconds.
SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors
bpjacobsenI keep learning more and more about what I have so this is a good thing. Unfortunately, I’m realizing I should have done this research on SSD etc before buying my pc. I’m missing out on double the bandwidth since my mini pc uses a PCIe 3 x4 which means 4gb per second since each ‘lane’ transfers at 1gb/sec. the PCIe 4 is double. But really, even just updating my PCIe 3 to a 2tb thus allowing all my samples/libraries to be connected there will no doubt cut load times way down. For now, I am in the process of copying the rest of my libraries to the internal SATA connected SSD so at least that will be a little faster until I can upgrade in the future. Seems like the 2.5 inch Sata are fine for keeping backups of stuff as they are cheap, but the PCIe is the way to go for best performance. Oh, and yes, my pc has an M.2 PCIe 3 SSD slot. My plan is to update that to a 2tb so I can put all samples and libraries there. should help a lot with speed. Or even if copying the libraries to the internal SATA SSD is good enough improvement in load time, I may just hold off and get a better PC when I can.
thanks
drumjack52Computer administration can be a right pain if one is relatively new to the subject. Good that you’re learning. Don’t hesitate to ask for help here as we were all new at one point. Computers were supposed to be good at anything you throw at them we were told back in the day but that isn’t really true.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
bpjacobsenI’m definitely not new to computers, but I’m no expert either. I work in software support, just not the hardware stuff. But I admit, I’m not up to date on the latest and greatest.
I managed to copy my SDX pack libraries to the SATA SSD that is connected inside the pc. for those packs, it takes between 12 and 18 seconds to load those presets/projects. Then you go to a project from the SD3 library that is stored on the PCIe 3 SSD and it takes about 5-6 seconds or so. So I can see the obvious benefit of having them all on a PCI SSD. So eventually, I will probably just upgrade my pc when I save up some money. I can live with the speed for now but I do look forward to PCI 4 or 5. LOL
drumjack52How many programmers does it take to change a lightbulb? None because it’s a hardware problem 🙂
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
Shen GI saw you made a new what to buy thread bpjacobsen, but I really don’t think your PC is the problem, specs wise. It’s plenty fast. I dare say faster than a 2012 mac pro 😛 barring some of that magic Apple fairy dust.
As an eDrumin fan, I’d also trust what Rob says 😛 Don’t mean to call you out drumjack, you’re helpful and asked some good questions. And tbh, I’m the kind of guy that likes plenty of spare room and 450mA out of 500 makes me uneasy 😀 But I don’t think that has anything to do with bpj’s issues anyway.
It seems you’re knowledgable enough to not be running a bloated prebuilt like drumjack asked, and I half expected to find you were using a $20 bargain SSD you found on ebay or something to begin with.
One thing that stands out is the 38MB/s reading is task manager. That seems too low and makes me think some part of that USB chain may be running at 2.0 speeds. And you say it seems like something new and I feel like I have heard of issues with devices “down versioning” their connection, but don’t have experience with it myself. See if you can get faster speeds perhaps. File copy or CrystalDiskMark etc.
When I built my new PC esp for SD3, a Ryzen 5700x, X570 motherboard, PCIe 4.0 drive etc, I was underwhelmed by the speedup from the old PC. It seems to me that the SD3 software is very single threaded despite the Performance setting for number of CPU cores , judging by the 12.5%ish CPU usage when loading kits and I guess decompressing (from lossless) in to RAM. Perhaps the cores setting helps with a lot of FX?
My Drive Model: Samsung 980 PRO with Heatsink 1TB seems to max out at about 1GB/s when loading kits/bleed. It benchmarks up to 6GB/s sequential, but down to 90MB/s at worst random reads. I also wonder if the nature of many samples being loaded makes it a workload closer to random. Seems like something that could be optimised for though?
Also don’t get cought up on the PCIe 4/5/6 max bandwidth things. Even 5 requires active cooling to maintain performance at those speeds. And fans on a storage device is something I just can’t abide!
I’ve often wondered about SD3 performance characteristics. I’d be happy to try doing different tests for curiosity sake.
drumjack52I beg to differ with BP’s machine possibly being faster than a 2012 MacPro. No way it could be faster. I run a 2012 MacPro cheesegrater with a 3.46 GHz hex core cpu and 48 gig ram. The system drive is on a pcie hosted ssd and the samples are on another ssd on a pcie card adapter. I can load the 16+ gig SW preset from Death & Darkness in about 20 seconds from opening SD3 to fully loaded. Plenty fast for me. I load everything to ram. The samples drive is a Samsung 860 EVO (2 TB) and the system drive is an 850 EVO (1 TB). Certainly not the fastest but they get the job done. Would I like ti have NVME ssd’s? Yes but I also don’t need the heat they give off.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
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