Real to Reel thoughts/review

[Shen G]

https://www.toontrack.com/forums/topic/real-to-reel-sdx/

 

Posted a drunk rant/opinion/review last night in the requests and feedback area of the forums but now wonder how regularly SD3 users go there, so hope it’s OK to mention it here as I would like to have some other voices/opinions involved.  Perhaps I like it so much because it’s more compressed and processed on the way in than some other SDX’s and others wont like it for not being the rawness they want.  Or if anyone has any questions about it.

Will just reiterate here that the edrumming experience with it, especially the snares, is the best I’ve had.  And while I’m no expert, I do own most of SD3 SDX’s to compare to.

 

Cheers again.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.4.1
Operating system: Windows 10

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

Topic

[Korken]

I read it the other day. Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts, it can help others to decide.

[Wolfgang]

Many thanks for writing your review! One question just to be sure and because you’re mentioning your edrumming experience: Are there really no snares with wires off? And no other tools than sticks, no rods oder mallets? I’m just asking because I think that’s an opportunity that Toontrack keeps missing out on. Using SD3 in a band context and having quite a bunch of SDXs I’m more looking for kits with the option to switch between sticks, mallets und rods. On an acoustic kit if my bandmates want me to vary my sound I would switch tools, not drumsets…

Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

• This post was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Wolfgang.

[Shen G]

Yeah, spot on.  It doesn’t have any of those alternate tools or snare wires off.  I probably should have mentioned that but I guess I forgot because I rarely use them, in part because of my narrow play style, but also find the drums they choose to use for the rods (probably the only type I’d use), brushes, mallets etc are on the drums I don’t want to use.

Although I have considered asking for/putting the idea out there for an SDX that is going for the most “virtual drum kit” possible.  Instead of spending so much time and effort in to the multiple rooms and kits, just sample a high quality 7+ piece kit thats as universal as possible.  With a modest bunch of snare options that cover as wide a range of sound as possible, a few different sized kicks with some muffling options and enough cymbals to suit different stuff.  And sample it with all the possible tools and have the options to “throw” the wires off on any snare.  Also have the buzz from each snare be appropriate to the snare that’s is in use.  afaik only 1 snare’s buzz is usually sampled?  Perhaps each kit has it’s own default snare sampled now judging by Real to Reel…  I know sometimes a tight piccolo snare will have the loose buzz of a fatty.

But have it be the most customizable, do anything you want with it that you could do if you had it for real.

Not sure which SDX’s you already have, but Legacy of Rock and Decades seem to have the most options for tools.  Along with Stories Iso A room and State of the Art and Jazz Sessions also have a few choices.  I may have missed something.

Cheers.

edit:  also regarding RtR, I turned positional sensing back on on the snare and think they’ve dialed in the off center and edge samples better than last I’ve tried.  Tbh I can’t remember when I tried it last, quite a while/perhaps many SDX’s, but always the found 3 different areas to sound too far from each other, and not really manageable on my Roland PD-128S and Edrumin setup.  Perhaps on 3 different pads.  But playing around on the snare sounded too strange, needing some kind of blending tech to sound natural (SD4 anyone?).  While there is still a bit of that in this SDX, it sounds close enough that I might actually use it, albeit set as close to the edge as I can to avoid accidental triggering.

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

• The post has been modified 2 times, last modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Shen G.

[Wolfgang]

I do have Decades and State of the Art and yes, there are some options. But as a drummer, I would generally prefer to see them sample fewer sets per SDX and instead use more tools for those sets. That would make the sets much more versatile. What about a SDX with one DW, one Ludwig and one you-name-it all recorded with sticks, snare off, rods, brushes and mallets? This would cover many styles plus make it a very usable tool for drummers.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.4.0
Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

[Bear-Faced Cow]

That is more producer dependent and has very little bearing on ToonTrack. There is no way I would expect to see a brush articulation on a path produced by Tom Dalgety.

The kits that were sampled in this pack serve the genre very well. I have yet to use them in the song, but that takes patients at times.

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

[Shen G]

I’m glad I’m not alone in wanting that kind of virtual drum kit style SDX Wolfgang!

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

That is more producer dependent and has very little bearing on ToonTrack.

I guess that’s what we’re saying.  Instead of a producer focused SDX, a more “what if you had this drum kit” kind of thing.  It’s possible there may be dozens of us.  DOZENS!  That want this.

I do think the tech has come a long way all around.  Such that is it a viable alternative for a lot people when unable access such drums, mics, rooms, engineers etc.  Not to mention the creative opportunities that are possible with e-drums and great samples.

I can imagine issues with some people not like the limitations… “why is it that drum brand not this one.  no buy”.  We have so much genre/era covered already with the producer style series, have to find some differentiator.

Cheers

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Wolfgang]

Of course it’s not for every set, can’t think of any Area 33 kit played with brushes… But there are many great and delicat sounding kits that would benefit from some more playing styles and tools. E.g. the Songwriter Kit from Stories or the some of the kits from Stockholm. Or (btt) all three R2R kits in the Wood Booth. I just think we have enough great sounding sets played with sticks. Would be cool if they could give us some more choices tool-wise.

[Bear-Faced Cow]

Instead of a producer focused SDX, a more “what if you had this drum kit” kind of thing.  It’s possible there may be dozens of us.  DOZENS!  That want this.

oooh dozens… as opposed to the countless thousands of users (ToonTrack would have better numbers) who look forward to packs which were recorded by world class producers in amazing Studios and use them in their songs. It’s about the music… not the drums itself. Mind you, if you are not taking advantage of all of the tools within Superior Drummer that, allow you to build the kind of drum kits that you are looking for then you are not really using Superior Drummer to its fullest extent.

I do think the tech has come a long way all around.  Such that is it a viable alternative for a lot people when unable access such drums, mics, rooms, engineers etc.  Not to mention the creative opportunities that are possible with e-drums and great samples

Read the above. You can do the above with the core library alone if you wanted. In that case, why are you buying SDXs. if you are referring to physical modeling then no tech has not come along way. I’ll take the real drums in a real environment recorded by a real person any day. I find it rather humorous that you are looking for realism in the most unrealistic ways.

I can imagine issues with some people not like the limitations… “why is it that drum brand not this one.  no buy”.  We have so much genre/era covered already with the producer style series, have to find some differentiator.

You just answered this: genre/era are the differentiators. The same kits recorded by different producers in different studios through different recording chains are different in and of themselves. Knowing the song I’m working on allows me to select the right kit from the appropriate packs to impart the right energy for the song.  And if I need more, I can build it. Everything is already there  So, I don’t understand what you think is missing.

jord

 

 

---

Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

[Shen G]

OK, if you’re missing the joke from the greatest bestest comedy ever made then I’m sorry for you 😛

Yeah, I have no idea how many people either use the software like I do or are interested in this idea of an SDX, that’s why I’m putting it out there.  I am at least not the only one.  I curious as you how you think you know nearly everyone uses it the way you do.  Perhaps this is an e-drummer vs programmer thing?

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

It’s about the music… not the drums itself.

That sounds pretty fluffy.  Aren’t drums part of the music?  Or do mean the thing like how when drums recorded/mixed for a demo to show them off they sound good on their own, but would be hard to fit in a song mix?

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

You can do the above with the core library alone if you wanted.

For one I can’t even select a kit that is up to my standards/taste.  Something about them sounds weakly hit and there is too much room sound for my liking.  The sampling isn’t good as far as soft to hard hits,  hi-hat openness levels etc.  And no, I can’t write a song using the Tama Bell Brass and be a Danny Carey and throw the wires on for the last half can I?
While for sure I’m not taking advantage of all the sound sculpting features in SD3 by a long shot, it’s the baked in qualities of the recorded samples that are my highest priority.  I am really looking forward to seeing/hearing SD4’s core library.

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

if you are referring to physical modeling

Certainly not.  I basically mean e-drums and Superior Drummer.

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

I’ll take the real drums in a real environment recorded by a real person any day. I find it rather humorous that you are looking for realism in the most unrealistic ways.

Absolutely.  I don’t even like using the tuning feature in SD3 if can avoid it, as good as the algorithm is.  I aim to treat the setup as much as a real kit recording as much as possible.

I struggle with your desire for authentic realism on one hand and your just make anything work with enough manipulation on the other.

I’m certainly not saying to stop doing producer packs.  It’s just that a few times now, as a drummer I’ve wished they had recorded this or that snare with wires off/rods.  That these drums had clear or coated heads instead.  That some had more/less/different muffling on snare/toms etc.  I know about envelope controls, but again, as much captured for real is ideal.

I can see how all the possible permutations could really get out of control.  Things like the muffling options would be too much, and the envelope controls are a natural enough change to use.  And not saying TT would make millions if they did it, but it was just a suggestion, curious to see what others thought about it.  While it’s rather OT now, here we are.

A Modern Session Drummer SDX.  As close to a “no compromise” for E-drummers who either want to replace or are unable to access the quality of gear/talent used in these recordings without sacrificing the features of real kits.

Pie in the sky perhaps.

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[MrTopo!]

I was interested in reading opinions about Real to Reel SDX (as the thread title indicates) and I found many posts on a topic that has nothing to do with it. Let’s get back to the topic at hand, please.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.4.1
Operating system: Windows 10

Superior Drummer 3 + EZdrummer 3 + 21 SDX & 57 EZX | EZkeys 2 | EZmix 3 | Roland TD-27KV
Cubase Pro 14 | WaveLab Pro 12 | Dorico Pro 6 | SpectraLayers Pro 11
Windows 10 Education x64 | i7-8700K | 32gb RAM DDR4 3000MHz | MSI Z370 PC Pro | Steinberg UR-RT2

1

Thanked by: Wolfgang

[Shen G]

Sorry about that.  I made another thread now.
I don’t mind if mods clean this one up.  Or should I just deleted my text or does this forum have spoiler tags so I could at least hide it?  I already screwed up having 2 threads regarding the “review”.

Great, now I’m going off topic again… I’ll see my self out…

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Author]

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