Problems setting/synching tempo for 6/8 and 12/8 MIDI

[keithwriter]

I’m having a hard time synching EZKeys and EZDrummer MIDI with my DAW for triplet-based songs in 6/8 or 12/8.

It appears that Toontrack sets the tempo based on two-note groupings of 8th notes. This means that there are THREE quarter-note beats in a bar of 6/8 MIDI, even if the music is grouped in threes and the pulse is clearly based on a dotted quarter note, with the emphasis on the first and fourth 8th note in the measure.

This makes it very hard to set up a tempo in a DAW based on feeling the pulse every three 8th notes. For example, a slow 6/8 song with a dotted quarter note = 40bpm needs to be set up as 60bpm when using Toontrack MIDI, making it really hard to work with other programs or non-Toontrack MIDI.

Is there a way to convert this so that the tempo is based on with the dotted-quarter pulse that is typically used in 6/8 and 12/8 music? Thanks for any suggestions!

Topic

[John]

Hi,

I am not sure I follow correctly; if I’m setting up a song (using Logic Pro X right now) that is 6/8 and load the EZdrummer 2 plugin and set the time signature to 6/8 there as well, I have no problems at all with syncing or bars/beats lining up.
Are you not using the plugins? Are you trying to sync the standalone apps?

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[keithwriter]

No, I’m using the plugins. The issue is in how Toontrack is subdividing the bar. For example, if you use this groove:
EZDrummer 2 Modern-Vintage/Midtempo/Straight 6-8/Oldies Rock 106BPM/Verse/Variation 01

Playing it at its original tempo, it SAYS it is 106 bpm. But that tempo is based on groupings of two eighth notes. If you listen to the groove, to where the main kick and snare beats fall, they are happening every THREE notes. So to the listener, the actual tempo of the song is not 106; it’s more like 70.666 (2/3 of 106). I’ve tested this with a clicktrack, so I know I’m not hallucinating. 🙂

So any midi I write in other software, or any wav files generated by other instruments, would need to be set at 70.66 bpm, and in practice, are VERY difficult to synch with a Toontrack file set at 106.

If you’re basing your track entirely on Toontrack tools, and just recording live tracks for everything else, it’s no problem. But if you’re using other software that determines the tempo of 6/8 or 12/8 tracks in groupings of THREE eighth notes (which is the most common way it is usually phrased), it’s hard to get them to play nicely together.

So what I’m asking is: is there a way to take the groove in the example above, and convert how ToonTrack sees the tempo, basing it on three-note groupings instead of two-note groupings? This would mean that a 6/8 song with a tempo of 60bpm using 2-note groupings would display as a tempo of 40bpm using 3-note groupings.

I know, it’s a lot of confusing math, but I’m surprised this issue hasn’t come up before. Maybe I’m just articulating it badly, and searching on the wrong terms.

Thanks again.

[John]

Well,

maybe I’m not your man, then, since I never had any problems that way and probably still don’t follow where the actual problem lies if both host and plugin is set to 6/8.
Have you tried using the 2/3x and 3/2x dividers in the BROWSER and SEARCH tabs? Right next to the ‘Preview original Tempo’ button?

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[keithwriter]

John, THANK YOU!

That solves the issue, at least in EZDrummer. I used the 3/2x setting and it set the drum tempo at the correct setting to match the project. Yay!

However, I don’t see a similar option in EZKeys. It only offers half-time or double-time.

Any ideas for addressing this in EZKeys? Thanks for your help – it’s really appreciated!

[John]

That seems like a good idea for the Requests & Feedback section, EZkeys does not have that option currently.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

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