Please make it possible to buy individual instruments. Some ideas…

[jscomposer]

When I listen to the SDX samples, I hear only one or two sounds I like. A snare here, a kick there. Even with the holiday discount, it’s hard to justify buying an expansion pack for one or two sounds.

Here’s an idea, since you wouldn’t want to post samples of individual sounds (for obvious reasons): for each song sample, have a list of the instruments along with a little buy button next to each. Price them just a little more than the regular price divided by the number of instruments in the SDX.

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[dthgtr]

I’m guessing you are talking about the samples on the product page.
 
Don’t judge a library by it’s samples.
 
I was uncertain about buying TMF last year because I am not into the type of metal most associated with TT.
Having said that,I was not disappointed when I did get it.There is an enormous ammount of drums to choose from.
It is in no way metal exclusive.
 
This year I’m going for C&V.
 
Later.
 

2004 Fender American Stratocaster Marshall MG 250 Digitech GNX4 Guitar Workstation Novation Impuse 49 Scarlett 8i6 Presonus Eris 5 monitors Sonar X3 Pro Win7 HP 64 Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Intel i5 3470(3rd gen) 3.2GHz 16GB RAM (2)1TBHDD

[jscomposer]

I assume you’re talking about Metal Foundry? I actually bought that about a year ago because I do write metal, and I was very disappointed. A lot of the good sounds are already in DFH and don’t sound significantly better or different. And much of the new sounds are very band-specific. The kit that came with SD2 is much better IMHO, and for a wider range of music.

But even before buying MF, I had the same dilemma–only a few instruments piqued my interest on the product page. It was actually a tough decision, and I would NOT have bought it in hindsight.

I understand if they’d be wary of posting individual instrument sounds, because people could just sample them. But my idea is a great alternative that 1) allows users to build their own kits without spending loads of money on preassembled kits just to get a few instruments, and 2) protects Toontrack from people just sampling individual instrument sound clips.

Another idea, they could even make it so that if someone has bought several instruments and at some point decides they want the whole set, they could apply the prices of the individual purchases as a credit towards the full set.

I just think it’s a LOT more consumer-friendly this way.

[Scott]

A lot of the good sounds are already in DFH and don’t sound significantly better or different.

Just a small correction. TMF sounds are completely new recordings and are not in DFH (EZX) at all. Neither are TMF sounds from DFHS either (if you were referring to that).

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Whitten]

ORIGINAL: jscomposer
I understand if they’d be wary of posting individual instrument sounds, because people could just sample them. But my idea is a great alternative that 1) allows users to build their own kits without spending loads of money on preassembled kits just to get a few instruments, and 2) protects Toontrack from people just sampling individual instrument sound clips.

The problem is that the Toontrack philosophy is to sample complete kits holistically.
How do you make a single snare drum available to customers, when the snare sound is completely dependent on the bleed from tom mics, and ambient mics etc….
Some other drum programs sample drums in an isolated fashion, but Toontrack sample a complete kit, in a room, with all mics active.

Another issue is that Toontrack work in different rooms, with numerous drummers, recording engineers, different mic set ups.
X Drums are a compromise that seems to work for most people, but can you imagine a record made with a bass drum sampled in 2005 at Avatar, with a snare sampled in 2007 in Sweden, room mics from 2008 in Nashville and toms from 2010 in London.
Talk about dog’s breakfast.

[jscomposer]

TMF sounds are completely new recordings and are not in DFH (EZX) at all. Neither are TMF sounds from DFHS either (if you were referring to that).

New recordings, but of much of the same instruments. So for example, you can select the same splash in either MF or DFH, and they don’t sound much different.

X Drums are a compromise that seems to work for most people, but can you imagine a record made with a bass drum sampled in 2005 at Avatar, with a snare sampled in 2007 in Sweden, room mics from 2008 in Nashville and toms from 2010 in London.

That actually supports my idea. So let’s say I only like a few instruments from MF. I’d use X drums to place them in the same room as the Avatar kit. Ideal or not, that still means I paid $149 (or $79 with the holiday discount) for just a few extra sounds. That might be great for Toontrack’s bottom line, but it’s a waste of money for me. In fact, it may actually hurt Toontrack’s bottom line–I’m holding off on more expansion packs for this reason. I can’t be the only one.

[Whitten]

ORIGINAL: jscomposer
That actually supports my idea.

Err, I was pointing out it would be very difficult because of the amount of mics that go into one instrument sample, AND a sonic nightmare.
The one or two other companies that offer small downloadable extras are using the same room, same drummer, same mics and many fewer mics in the recording process.
You don’t think the EZX’s are cheap enough?

[jscomposer]

???

The work is already done. You can even see the individual samples in the kit folders. All I’m saying is that they ought to allow you to buy those samples individually. Again, on the products page, have a list of instruments used in each song, along with a buy button for each. The download would of course include all the samples (articulations) for a given instrument.

[dthgtr]

I still don’t get “only a few sounds” in TMF.That library is huge.
With my current set up I have to run in 16 bit to explore the full kit let alone some of the more extensive presets.
 
To each is own, but personally,TMF sounds nothing like DKFH to me.
 
Later.

2004 Fender American Stratocaster Marshall MG 250 Digitech GNX4 Guitar Workstation Novation Impuse 49 Scarlett 8i6 Presonus Eris 5 monitors Sonar X3 Pro Win7 HP 64 Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Intel i5 3470(3rd gen) 3.2GHz 16GB RAM (2)1TBHDD

[Whitten]

ORIGINAL: jscomposer
The work is already done. You can even see the individual samples in the kit folders.

You are misunderstanding what I’m trying to explain to you.
When you load individual samples from the kit folder, you still have a whole kit of mics in play right?
How do you download all that when purchasing single instruments.
I’m talking about outcomes for customers like you, not wether it’s possible or too much work for Toontrack.
It simply isn’t good from an audio point of view to mix multiple drums from multiple recording dates and locations. It’s also hard to download individual snare drums for example, when a big part of that snares sound is contained in the tom mics, the ambient mics etc….
It’s only possible if you also download the toms and ambience too….. but then that defeats the individual download idea.

[jscomposer]

^I think I get what you’re saying. I’d have to download the mic/ambiance/bleed algorithms (or samples, or however that stuff is manifested). But that’s the ideal setup. As it is, I use X drums to put 1 or 2 MF instruments into the Avatar room. So, in that case, the mic/ambiance/bleed is already there, and I’d only need the actual samples.

In other words, allow consumers to buy individual instruments as X drums to put with whichever kit they’re using. Sure, it’s not ideal, but it’s far from “sonic nightmare.” In fact, I’ll bet most home studio musicians wouldn’t think to themselves, Oh, that splash sounds out of place, I better download the whole kit…

…so that I can still use X drums to put that splash in the Avatar room and wonder why I had to spend $179. 😉

[Whitten]

Yeah, I’m not totally disagreeing with your request, just pointing out a kit made up entirely of separate drum purchases would be a sonic nightmare.
A few x-drums here and there….. no real problem.

[Rogue]

The work is already done.

… you do realize that offering subsets of a recording would be like configuring that many individual products, right? We would likely not be able to offer more than 1 expansion a year if such micro-entities were seriously envisaged… and it wouldn’t really be a satisfying experience for the reason Chris explained.

If such an option appears at some point it will be more likely a ‘buy kit 1’ or ‘buy kit 2’ type of option, or on the other hand, maybe, at a stretch, additional ‘snare packs’ or the likes (rather than pick and choose what you want), but be under no illusion that it is a simple matter, profound changes in Superior would have to be done for it to even make sense of such a ‘modular’ approach.

And nor should you overestimate the demand for such options, nor underestimate the confusion that would ensue at retail level with the multiplicity of declinations of a product/recording, and so on and so forth. Just because it makes sense on paper does not mean it is realistic in the real world (of current technical possibilities and consumer/distribution paradigms) 😉

Rogue Marechal - Toontrack
Configuration Manager

[Edward]

I like tins! More hi-hats and cymbals please. Ultimate Rock SDX! We have more than enough shells, but a set of yamaha oak customs, would be nice with Ambassadors and Evans G2 heads – 10,12,14,16,18, Kicks 17×22, 17×24 yes! I understand your point with sales, popularity of product, and from toontracks perspective. I also understand with the rooms and microphone bleeds. Maybe the next pack can be from NRG, ooo yeah, with three different cymbal packs. Sabian AAX plosion fast 15-20in, HHX 15-20, X-ccelator hats, 3 interesting rides from both series. Just an idea, that’s all!

[Mark Williams]

ORIGINAL: jscomposer
As it is, I use X drums to put 1 or 2 MF instruments into the Avatar room.

But of course, you’re not really putting that drum from TMF into the Avatar room. You’re “faking” it as best is possible, but the room ambiences are not the same, really. Sometimes you can get away with it and it’s not a problem at all, especially in a dense mix, but if one were trying to truly build a total kit from the ground up with each piece coming from a different pack, and hence, room, it would truly be a sonic nightmare.

MBP 2.4 GHz | 4GB RAM | OSX 10.6.8 Logic Pro 9.1.5 | Metric Halo LIO-8/4P | Apogee ONE SD 2.3.0 | EZP 1.1.0 | Drumtracker 1.0.2

[Mark Williams]

ORIGINAL: Whitten
…can you imagine a record made with a bass drum sampled in 2005 at Avatar, with a snare sampled in 2007 in Sweden, room mics from 2008 in Nashville and toms from 2010 in London. Talk about dog’s breakfast.

Hmm, did you spill the beans on something here, Chris, or was this just for the sake of argument? A 2010 recording date in London?
Sounds very, very interesting!

MBP 2.4 GHz | 4GB RAM | OSX 10.6.8 Logic Pro 9.1.5 | Metric Halo LIO-8/4P | Apogee ONE SD 2.3.0 | EZP 1.1.0 | Drumtracker 1.0.2

[Author]

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