No reply from support so trying here…

[Anthony Manti]

Hello, I’m off to a rocky start with Toontrack and hoping to change that. I tried support and no reply. I’ll link to a post that will explain most of it as after all this I’m a bit exhausted and overwhelmed to have to type it again. Hopefully this improves my experience so far and helps Toontrack in the way of having me as a loyal and spending customer.

My reply to greggybud explains most of my questions and some of the dissatisfaction.

Thank you for listening.

https://gearspace.com/board/music-computers/1367026-ezdrummer-keys-superior-drummer.html

Topic

[Bear-Faced Cow]

What precisely are you asking, without leading us away from the forum? That post is more TLDR and ambiguous in nature.

Help us help you in this case.

jord

---

Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

• The post has been modified 2 times, last modified 4 years, 1 month ago by Bear-Faced Cow.

[Anthony Manti]

Well, it’s just one post to read and it’s the same things I will typed here, but I certainly understand. I will make a more concise post later when I have some time. I’ve just been overwhelmed with an incredible amount of life events at once.

Some of it is something only toontrack customer service could handle or comment as well, but I will make a later today.

Thank you

[Anthony Manti]

Ok, so I’m hoping that toontrack steps up with a bit of understanding and good faith. I won’t get into my personal situation, but every penny needs to count.

The first issue was no email response, but I don’t know what kind of turnaround is normal. Everyone is struggling nowadays to keep up so it could be understandable.

I bought EZkeys, EZdrummer, the Hip Hop EZX and two midi pack for keys (I think they were anyhow, it’s been a crazy few weeks here). I did this on the BF Sale. 70 bucks or so for drummer. I thought I saved 120 bucks, but oh wait, it doesn’t come work the pack you normally get or get now. So doing the math I save a whopping 12 bucks and in reality and because of what is likely to happen in the end I may lose money. Either way any savings will be tiny and not worth the trouble this has been.

I asked the dealer if I could return the item and repurchase it so that I could wait to activate it until now and feel ok about it all. They couldn’t, even though I wanted to buy another, which I understand. Perhaps they could have asked Toontrack at that point. I don’t know.

An upgrade path to SD3 was a real possibility here too. A store I shop at I have credits with and for a brief time, a time I could have jumped on the deal, they had a good cash back reward. I would have been thrilled…aside from at that point I would have had the Hip Hop pack and that might be very will covered in SD3 anyhow? I’m not sure…that is another thing I had questions about so far as what overlaps to both SD3 concerning EZX and midi packs…as well as what overlaps in general with EZX and midi.

Then I see the SDX bonus is over and that even with an upgraded I would have been granted that when I registered. At least many are.

That represents a ton of money to most of us, but had it all worked out that way it would have felt fair. It’s top notch stuff. However, going into this unassumingly I can’t help but feel lousy about the whole experience.

Not sure I can feel good about it or even use them now…and the thing that got me all jazzed about it all was my buddy was gonna gift me his Alt-rock pack. That would be a blast for me.

I understand what will probably be the reaction. That’s ok. I’ll hope for different. Premium prices are one thing. Nobody is forcing us to buy…but the advertising and sales are not done in good faith. I mean 20 bucks saved for BF and I had no clue? That’s not honest.

I won’t bother asking the other product questions and going down gathering that knowledge until I see if perhaps I can be made whole here, suck it up as that’s life and move forward with the product, or if I can’t, just sell it off. Maybe I could start over next BF with a fresh look at it.

Thanks and be well

[Scott]

Anthony Manti wrote:

Ok, so I’m hoping that toontrack steps up with a bit of understanding and good faith. I won’t get into my personal situation, but every penny needs to count.

The first issue was no email response, but I don’t know what kind of turnaround is normal. Everyone is struggling nowadays to keep up so it could be understandable.

I bought EZkeys, EZdrummer, the Hip Hop EZX and two midi pack for keys (I think they were anyhow, it’s been a crazy few weeks here). I did this on the BF Sale. 70 bucks or so for drummer. I thought I saved 120 bucks, but oh wait, it doesn’t come work the pack you normally get or get now. So doing the math I save a whopping 12 bucks and in reality and because of what is likely to happen in the end I may lose money. Either way any savings will be tiny and not worth the trouble this has been.

I asked the dealer if I could return the item and repurchase it so that I could wait to activate it until now and feel ok about it all. They couldn’t, even though I wanted to buy another, which I understand. Perhaps they could have asked Toontrack at that point. I don’t know.

An upgrade path to SD3 was a real possibility here too. A store I shop at I have credits with and for a brief time, a time I could have jumped on the deal, they had a good cash back reward. I would have been thrilled…aside from at that point I would have had the Hip Hop pack and that might be very will covered in SD3 anyhow? I’m not sure…that is another thing I had questions about so far as what overlaps to both SD3 concerning EZX and midi packs…as well as what overlaps in general with EZX and midi.

Then I see the SDX bonus is over and that even with an upgraded I would have been granted that when I registered. At least many are.

That represents a ton of money to most of us, but had it all worked out that way it would have felt fair. It’s top notch stuff. However, going into this unassumingly I can’t help but feel lousy about the whole experience.

Not sure I can feel good about it or even use them now…and the thing that got me all jazzed about it all was my buddy was gonna gift me his Alt-rock pack. That would be a blast for me.

I understand what will probably be the reaction. That’s ok. I’ll hope for different. Premium prices are one thing. Nobody is forcing us to buy…but the advertising and sales are not done in good faith. I mean 20 bucks saved for BF and I had no clue? That’s not honest.

I won’t bother asking the other product questions and going down gathering that knowledge until I see if perhaps I can be made whole here, suck it up as that’s life and move forward with the product, or if I can’t, just sell it off. Maybe I could start over next BF with a fresh look at it.

Thanks and be well

Ok. Not sure of the question in there yet.

Are you asking for a refund?

Are you asking about if the Hip Hop EZX sounds are included in S3? They are not if that’s a question. Different drum kits recorded in a different room with different gear and a different producer.

Can you break it down to questions I can answer?

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Anthony Manti]

Good to know they aren’t exactly the same. I might not have bought it with all the similar things included, but I do hear that while of course the sample quality and such is deeper in SD3 that the packs that bring something different to the table are still well worth it to have. It was on sale too so it wasn’t a bad price. Just with Logic getting new electronic drum sounds I may not have. No biggie, I’m sure I’ll enjoy them.

Working something out with Toontrack would be nice if they understand where I’m coming from and want to make it to what I feel would be right and good about staying on board.  I say it that way because they may disagree and that’s fine.

Aside from that I just wanted to express my opinion as a customer. That’s all I can do. Whether I get made whole (in my eyes) or not, it’s good to be heard and I think most companies want to listen. I think if one looks at it objectively, there’s a lot of validity there. There have been other instances, where the fan base was mad….that backlash didn’t cause immediate rectification,  but on the other hand Toontrack might have been listening quietly and will take it into consideration the next time. That’s the customers hope anyhow.

Right now a lot of people pay the price despite how they feel about these things. I won’t assume what Toontrack is thinking, but I think everyone knows how the customers often feel.

So nowadays I speak up and hope it makes things better. If a company truly listens than it does.

I’ll worry about anymore product specific questions later.

[Scott]

OK. I’m sorry you’ve had a bad experience. I still can’t make heads or tails of exactly what the bad experience is from what you’ve said so far. That doesn’t mean you don’t have valid issues, I just can’t tell exactly what they are.

Having said that, forum techs don’t have much power in terms of refunds and your best bet is to contact Toontrack directly which sounds like what you’ve done. Is also a possibility that they don’t understand what you are asking of them either so that may be an issue. If you want a refund, you’ll have to ask specifically. If you want to vent over pricing policies, you may not get a back and forth argument but I don’t know.

Any more issues specifically I can help with?

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Anthony Manti]

No other issues I care to discuss at this moment.

Not looking for a back and forth argument with them or you. I didn’t even know this was an argument?…and if you don’t feel I’m trying to have one with you than why would you even suggest I might like to have one with them? Believe me the last thing I want to be doing is this!

I think my grievances are very clear at this point. If they weren’t than why did you even mention pricing policies?

There is a way many company representatives act to deflect and let you know what they feel without saying anything to be called out upon. I’m sure you’ve experienced this yourself. I’m disappointed that’s happening here.

Instead of taking the complaint seriously and saying you’d let someone know or it would be added to company suggestions or whatever, you talk about debating pricing policies as being irrelevant.

They are the heart of the matter and you know that. I explained exactly the few areas I have a problem with. I said it is up to Toontrack if they want to make any refunds or arrangements to make this right.

You don’t have much power? So some yeah?…why ask for this to be expanded upon if you didn’t want to deal with it. I said right off the bat this wasn’t gonna be about product questions. Yet you turn around and make vague references to venting and arguing. You asked for the continued discourse. I simply said read the ONE post. You said it was TLDR….now what has been TLDR? This thread has.

I’m disabled dude, this has got to go on the back burner for now. I reached out to Toontrack two different ways. 0-2 so far.

I’ll give the email some more time if you don’t want to use your limited power to push this along. After that, customers have other appropriate avenues to pursue. We can at least be hear if anything.

 

[Anthony Manti]

So this is how the help goes here…and no reply yet from email support and no way to call. Merry Christmas to me I guess. Way to treat people.

[Brad]

I hope I can help you break this down so perhaps someone can assist in the problems you are having.

Question 1; You bought EZKeys, is it installed OK and is it working OK?

Question 2; You bought EZDrummer, is it installed OK and is it working OK?

Question 3; You bought an EZX to add to the EZDrummer configuration, is it installed OK and is it working OK?

Question 4; Have you purchased any of the above and have changed your mind and want a refund?

EZdrummer version: 2.2.2
Operating system: macOS Big Sur (11)

Mac Studio M1 Max, RAM 64 GB, 1TB Drive, OSX 12.x/13.x and Windows 10 (VM)
DAW: Fender Studio Pro 8, Presonus Studio One Pro 7
DTX Express III (Extreme triggers), Nektar LX88
OWC Thunderbay Mini (4 X 1TB Sata SSD), Express 4M2 (4 X 2TB M.2 SSD), Envoy Express (1TB M.2 SSD)
Presonus Quantum, Faderport & Faderport 8
Black Lion Sparrow Mk2 A/D, FMR-RNP-RNC, MIDI Xpress 128, BM5A, KRK VXT4, Equator D5
2020 Macbook Pro 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD Audio(mobile rig)

[Anthony Manti]

Hi Brad, I bought the items due to the sale even though I’m unable to use them at the moment. Current computer and living situation is limiting recording, but that will be changing very soon, and I wanted to take advantage of the sale so as to not pay more in a few months when I’m ready to install.

As I outlined my problem with how the sale and it’s lack of transparency as a newer customer to Toontrack, there may not be much savings at all or even end up costing me more. I also had a potential plan to upgrade to Superior. So if nobody at Toontrack considers working out something, and/or at the very least speaking to me about it, then at that point, yes I may be interested in a refund as I have a hard time enjoying products after a poor experience with the company.  If they care to work with me, it wouldn’t be an outright refund I’m looking for and would actually most likely result in me spending more money with Toontrack! That’s the thing about customer service and the irony here is that Toontrack ends up losing out by losing a customer.

[Brad]

OK, so you bought the software in Toontrack’s website during the BF sales. Were the prices unclear? (I have looked through some of my BF sales emails, however as they are over I can’t roll back to the website to see). I know there was some “Buy EZD get an EZX” sales.

Maybe break it down by product and price and Scott or someone will see exactly where the issue lies. If not perhaps break it down so it’s clear for support and put in another ticket. I’m sorry I am not trying to be difficult, it’s not clear to me and I am trying to make it so.

Mac Studio M1 Max, RAM 64 GB, 1TB Drive, OSX 12.x/13.x and Windows 10 (VM)
DAW: Fender Studio Pro 8, Presonus Studio One Pro 7
DTX Express III (Extreme triggers), Nektar LX88
OWC Thunderbay Mini (4 X 1TB Sata SSD), Express 4M2 (4 X 2TB M.2 SSD), Envoy Express (1TB M.2 SSD)
Presonus Quantum, Faderport & Faderport 8
Black Lion Sparrow Mk2 A/D, FMR-RNP-RNC, MIDI Xpress 128, BM5A, KRK VXT4, Equator D5
2020 Macbook Pro 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD Audio(mobile rig)

[Anthony Manti]

Well, after Scott asked for something other than the link I provided, I thought it was pretty clear what I felt are issues, but I will try and type up a more concise even though I’m not sure how else to explain at this point. Probably have to do it later or tomorrow.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

I don’t feel Scott was not trying to be difficult, it’s spelled out pretty well right there how he chose to go about this and it just goes towards confirming what people feel the attitude of Toontrack is towards it’s customers….then no follow-up here or via support.

By now most companies would have someone in a position to help at least reach out to the customer. What is one to think of how any other issues will be handled if support emails just get ignored, even when bringing attention to the issue here as well?

[Scott]

Anthony Manti wrote:

Well, after Scott asked for something other than the link I provided, I thought it was pretty clear what I felt are issues, but I will try and type up a more concise even though I’m not sure how else to explain at this point. Probably have to do it later or tomorrow.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

I don’t feel Scott was not trying to be difficult, it’s spelled out pretty well right there how he chose to go about this and it just goes towards confirming what people feel the attitude of Toontrack is towards it’s customers….then no follow-up here or via support.

By now most companies would have someone in a position to help at least reach out to the customer. What is one to think of how any other issues will be handled if support emails just get ignored, even when bringing attention to the issue here as well?

I’ve done my best to try to understand what the issues are here and I still haven’t understood. You say it’s “pretty clear” however both Brad and myself are unclear so there is obviously a disconnect between when you think it’s clear and what we (and probably Toontrack support) are perceiving as not. You take that as an indication that I (or support) have just chosen to disregard you. However, I’ve done forum support for Toontrack for 13 years so I’m not a novice here. I ask questions in the hopes of getting info to either provide support or channel it to other sources. I shouldn’t be expected to provide the answers without  clarification when I ask.

So, I’ll try to decipher the questions and problems.

“The first issue was no email response, but I don’t know what kind of turnaround is normal. Everyone is struggling nowadays to keep up so it could be understandable.”

I don’t have an answer. Forum techs and Toontrack Support are separate entities and I can’t say why you haven’t got a reply. I’ll personally forward this forum post to support.

“I thought I saved 120 bucks, but oh wait, it doesn’t come work the pack you normally get or get now.”

I have no idea what this means. EZD2 comes with 2 kits. Modern and Vintage. Those are the libraries it has always shipped with. From that I also can’t tell how your purchase fell short of your expectations.

“I asked the dealer if I could return the item and repurchase it so that I could wait to activate it until now and feel ok about it all. They couldn’t, even though I wanted to buy another, which I understand. Perhaps they could have asked Toontrack at that point. I don’t know.”

If you’ve contacted the dealer that you purchased from, I’m not sure what more a forum tech can do to help. I don’t even know who the dealer is. If you feel mistreated about it, ask them for a full refund.

“Then I see the SDX bonus is over and that even with an upgraded I would have been granted that when I registered. At least many are.”

What is this SDX bonus you refer to? Can you provide a link? This is unclear.

“I understand what will probably be the reaction. That’s ok. I’ll hope for different. Premium prices are one thing. Nobody is forcing us to buy…but the advertising and sales are not done in good faith. I mean 20 bucks saved for BF and I had no clue? That’s not honest.”

Not sure what wasn’t done in good faith as you didn’t purchase from the Toontrack Webshop and I really don’t know what the raw deal was that you think you got. Please provide exact info about this

Please answer some of these questions with specifics.

 

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Anthony Manti]

I will need a bit more time. My housing is in jeopardy, that has to take priority, obviously

Toontrack CS has yet to reply, despite you even forwarding it for me, so I’ll assume they aren’t going to at this point.

Whether or not they understood isn’t a reason to ignore customers.

I still don’t think it’s very hard to understand, but that could be because you aren’t interested in discussing toontrack pricing policy, and that, along with the deceptive way things were advertised, are the crux of the issue.

Nobody else I’ve discussed this with or posted to about it has had any trouble understanding the problem….but I will get back to you guys when I can. I’m just not holding out much hope at this point, if they can’t be bothered to even acknowledge me. That doesn’t bode well for future support so I’d be hesitant to purchase SD3, which they could have had my money for and future loyalty for if they had bothered to contact me. So yeah, they’re losing money acting this way. Is it a publicly traded company? I doubt it, but either way I’m sure someone there cares about losing money.

• This post was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by Anthony Manti.

[Scott]

OK. I’ve asked for specific details regarding how you feel that Toontrack’s pricing policies have been disingenuous (5 days ago with no rely) and instead of answering any of them, you continue saying how no one will help you. Ok, when you can get around to replying to my exacting questions that were directly and succinctly asked to provide support, let me know. Otherwise I get the impression that you prefer just to vent rather that receive real tech support. Which is fine, and as I’ve stated before, I have no desire for a pricing policy argument.

PS. I’ve heard back from support. They have no support ticket submitted from anyone with your email address. Did you contact Toontrack via the Toontrack web form? Or did you contact the dealer you purchased from? Or did you use another email address when contacting Toontrack?

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Author]

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