Mixing in SD3 – Bounce to Logic sounds different

[ChadwickDunderc0ck]

I tune the heads set up the grooves. Make changes. Sounds great. When I BOUNCE it from SD3 to a stereo .wav and place it in logic its sounds weak…

Should I not be bouncing? Just keep it in the pugin? Make changes in SD3? What am doing wrong?

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.1.5
Operating system: macOS Catalina (10.15)

Topic

[Bear-Faced Cow]

Describe “weak”. It could be a classic case of having everything else too loud, but I’d rather not assume this. Are you bouncing the main output?

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

• This post was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by Bear-Faced Cow.

[ChadwickDunderc0ck]

Yes. It’s just the drums. Then I record the guitars over the bounced track. It looses punch and dynamics. I tested the original against the bounce and it looses a ton of dynamics and feel.

• This post was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by ChadwickDunderc0ck.

[mickg]

It sounds like you are not getting all of your channels in the bounces. Check your channel routings. I haven’t done any bounces in SD3 yet, but I’ve made that mistake in Pro Tools more than I care to admit.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.1.5
Operating system: macOS Mojave (10.14)

• This post was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by mickg.

[Bear-Faced Cow]

To start off, you’re probably bouncing too early. I usually wait until I’m ready to mix.

As far as the bounce itself goes, you need to remember that the plug-in audio will operate at 32-bit floating point within the DAW. That’s an exceptional amount of db range when you consider it. When you bounce, you are usually bouncing to 24-bit fixed. That’s a far less range. While you’re pushing your guitars and stuff at probably higher levels, your drum bounce probably isn’t at that level. Make sure that you are listening to the bounce and the plug-in at the same levels. I’m willing the bet that the plug-in sounds better because it sounds louder.

Something I learned from a lot of mix engineers that I had the the good fortune of meeting growing up is that you should not be mixing (and recording) loud. Aside from the fact that you can damage your hearing, your ear is a human audio compressor. Get things right at a low volume and it will sound great at higher volumes. A lot of people make the mistake that the key is to get it loud from the start. The key to recording is to capture a great performance and a great sound.  Also keep in mind that when you are recording your guitars, your guitars will mask certain drum frequencies, thus stealing some of its thunder. This where mixing will come into play. If you are worried about your drums before you record your guitar, your priorities are a bit out of alignment. Get good guitars before worrying about the drum bounce.

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

2

Thanked by: Robert and ChadwickDunderc0ck

[mickg]

Can you do an A/B comparison of your bounced track vs the pre-bounced? Both in session in sync with each other. Then you can play with volume of bounce to see if it is just a level difference. Also check to make sure you haven’t made a mono bounce by mistake. (Not sure how to do that in SD3, all my experience is from working in Pro Tools)

Now I think I need to try this stuff in SD3.
So far I’ve been only using it as my live kit.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.1.5
Operating system: macOS Mojave (10.14)

1

Thanked by: ChadwickDunderc0ck

[Bear-Faced Cow]

A mono track would be more an indication that it was imported into Logic as mono. However, Logic is smart enough to detect stereo as well as read any metadata attached to the audio.

It is more likely to be a difference in levels, and as stated above, if you haven’t put down any other tracks, you are more than likely bouncing too early.

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

1

Thanked by: ChadwickDunderc0ck

[J.R. Corominas]

Does bouncing the audio reduce the sound quality in anyway. I know the bit rate is lower. Does it make a difference. I personally like to bounce the audio as separate tracks and mix them like a real kit, but sometimes I find it sounds better when I’m writing with SD3’s mixer

[Mark King]

Bouncing doesn’t reduce quality. What you need to do is balance the bounced tracks out. I don’t use bounce but enable multiple outputs. I then render in place in Cubase and get the exact same sound I have been using.

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

[Bear-Faced Cow]

The only reason it might sound better in SD3’s mixer as opposed to separate audio tracks is because you are probably not making use of any processing within SD3, let alone bus processing. Other than that, as Mark stated, there is no degradation in the sound quality.

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

[Brad]

To add to all the detailed and great information from Jord and Mark, make sure you are bouncing through the output channels and not the microphone channels in the Bounce > Advanced tab and even then, if there’s processing going on in the 2-bus that is used as output by default, that may cause the output to sound different, as Jord mentioned.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS Ventura (13)

Mac Studio M1 Max, RAM 64 GB, 1TB Drive, OSX 12.x/13.x and Windows 10 (VM)
DAW: Studio One Pro (always up to date)
DTX Express III (Extreme triggers), Nektar LX88
OWC Thunderbay Mini (4 X 1TB Sata SSD), Express 4M2 (4 X 2TB M.2 SSD), Envoy Express (1TB M.2 SSD)
Presonus Quantum, Faderport & Faderport 8
Black Lion Sparrow Mk2 A/D, FMR-RNP-RNC, MIDI Xpress 128, BM5A, KRK VXT4, Equator D5
2020 Macbook Pro 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD Audio(mobile rig)

• This post was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Brad.

[J.R. Corominas]

Thnx for the info guys!

[J.R. Corominas]

I usually bounce microphone channels no processing.. I don’t want to bounce stereo outputs, although I can convert them to mono in my daw.. why do you suggest bouncing outputs? Thnx

[Brad]

J.R. Corominas wrote:

I usually bounce microphone channels no processing.. I don’t want to bounce stereo outputs, although I can convert them to mono in my daw.. why do you suggest bouncing outputs? Thnx

Bouncing through the output channels will get you closer to what you hear from the plug-in as they are still being processed. You can still separate those outputs to their own bounced files.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS Ventura (13)

Mac Studio M1 Max, RAM 64 GB, 1TB Drive, OSX 12.x/13.x and Windows 10 (VM)
DAW: Studio One Pro (always up to date)
DTX Express III (Extreme triggers), Nektar LX88
OWC Thunderbay Mini (4 X 1TB Sata SSD), Express 4M2 (4 X 2TB M.2 SSD), Envoy Express (1TB M.2 SSD)
Presonus Quantum, Faderport & Faderport 8
Black Lion Sparrow Mk2 A/D, FMR-RNP-RNC, MIDI Xpress 128, BM5A, KRK VXT4, Equator D5
2020 Macbook Pro 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD Audio(mobile rig)

[Bear-Faced Cow]

Bouncing either way is fine. The only real difference is that if you bounce using the multi out channels, you will get stemmed outfits rather than individual mic outputs. It all boils down to how much control you want over your audio channels.

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

[Hammer0716]

I just had to tell you that was a thoroughly great piece of advice. Thank you for taking the time to type all that out. It just helped me and you wrote it 5 years ago. Everything you wrote made perfect sense to me just now. Thanks again buddy!

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sequoia (15)

[Author]

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