alligatorlizardIs there a list available of what each drum is tuned to?
Tuning the kit to the key of song to avoid clashes like a tom tuned to a flat 5th from the root note, or a kick a semitone away etc., can instantly improve the sound of a mix massively.
I know we can just use our ears and adjust a semitone or two either way until it sounds right – and that it’s possible to get some idea of where the fundamental is using freq analyser (e.g. voxengo span) – but I feel I’m wasting a lot of time doing this each time I start a new project, and seeing as the drums were clearly carefully tuned during recording, surely this information could be made available?
If there’s some reason why Toontrack is unable or for some reason doesn’t want to release a list of what each drum is tuned to, could they explain why?
Rodney FergusonAlright Alli,
Nice idea! It would be nice to have a list of the peak frequencies of each drum.
It would also be nice if the tuning section for the drum heads was in cents or +/- Hertz.
However, I have resigned myself to using the technique that you mentioned. Using the analyzer inside an EQ plugin to tell me where the drum is pitched.
Kind regards
Rodney
Bear-Faced CowThis type of thread was discussed elsewhere on the forum and Toontrack gave a reasonably definitive answer, boiling down to: drums are for the most part atonal in the traditional sense and vary in pitch when hit. It is best to use your ears when adjusting their pitch.
I’m willing to believe that whoever tuned the drums (probably Norman Garschke) didn’t either log what tuning or consciously picked a specific note, but rather tuned one drum to something that appealed to him and worked around it to make it all sound good.
Using your ears to tune the drums is never a waste of time. If anything, you’d better off using your ears because you’d be training your ears at the same time. The best part of this really is that you can tune the drums as you go along, rather than intense pre-production tuning to match the song.
jord
Mark KingI know of very few drummers who tune to a pitch. In fact depending on the drum different tunings work better. If taking the drum to a certain pitch it may not suit that drum. I agree with the post above.
SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors
Rodney FergusonYou should watch some production YouTube videos that include producers such as Dave Jerden (Jane’s Addiction) Michael Bienhorn (Soundgarden) and Shelly Jakus (Tom Petty).
The amount of time they all spend on tuning a snare is insane. Especially when producing the hits/singles. Retuning every other take.
Whether this is tuning to a pitch, a tone or the room who knows. But they certainly know what they are looking for in different areas of the frequency spectrum.
There are also a number of producers who will target specific frequencies for each piece of kit to either boost or cut.
It is difficult when starting to know how to identify certain frequencies by ear. It comes with experience, trial and error.
Definitely use your ears but you can also speed that process up by looking at where your snare, toms are peaking with an analyser. Also at how much energy is in the low mids.
Then after a while it becomes second nature.
Regards
Rodney
Bear-Faced CowFor me, I just stick to using my ears because when I’m tuning a drum, I’m not looking for a specified pitch inasmuch as working to get it to blend in with the song I’m working on. Usually, when I have the tonality that I’m looking for, tuning is often minute adjustments for me.
jord
Robin GardnerHi! I’ve seen Fabfilters Q3 has a “piano roll” inside its plugin so you can find the pitch in keys when eq’uing… Maybe that can be used to find the key for each drum in Superior Drummer 3? However Ive never used that plugin, dont own it and its rather expensive too. But Ive seen plenty ppl say its their best EQ plugin so could be worth getting anyway. Or maybe they have a demo to try out before buying it? After finding the key note for each drum it’s just a simple matter of writing it down somewhere. Then that plugin should also makes it easy to tune each drum too… However I believe tuning by ear is better since Music is more about “feel” than anything else (imho). If it sounds bad keep tuning until its sounds good to your ears… But now I’m actually thinking about trying out the method of tuning using a plugin like Fabs Q3 or any other plugin for that matter… I use Cubase and it has some tuning plugins with it, maybe each DAW has one that could be used instead of bying a new one or there’s a freebie that can do it? I never tried it, always done it by ear…
alligatorlizardThanks for all the replies and advice/suggestions.
Found a few more threads on this, also, interestingly, this recent feature request, where the response seems to indicate it might be possible to add a feature whereby a kit could be instantly tuned to fit the key of a song: https://www.toontrack.com/forums/topic/tuning-drums-to-key-of-song/
Now just to clarify, I’m not under the impression this means tuning the kick to the exact root note etc (as this could obviously involve significantly altering the tuning which will likely make the drums sound un-naturally tinny or boomy) but just moving a semitone or two either way to avoid really unpleasant clashes, e.g. as previously mentioned flat 5th, flat 2nd, or possibly a major 3rd or 7th in a minor key (or vice versa).
I’ve also read numerous discussions about whether or not drums are/can be tuned to a definite pitch – and while I understand this is a complex topic due to overtones, and pitch altering over time (e.g. I’ve noticed a signal analyzer will often show a tom initially peaking at certain freq, then this peak moving to the left as it dies down) – I nonetheless find that many of the drums sampled have definite fundamental pitches which is always going to make them clash with certain keys. Therefore I’m not entirely backing down on the suggestion that some documentation on what these fundamentals are would save a lot of time. Yes, I know in the studio hours are spent tweaking drum tunings, but one of the benefits of software like this should be providing shortcuts to procedures like this?
Of course it’s not that our ears shouldn’t be the ultimate judge of how we tweak the tunings, but – as discussed – it really is difficult/time consuming to judge exactly where the fundamental (or dominant) tone is for a drum – tuners are no help here, and while a frequency analyzer will give some idea, it’s hard to tell precisely even voxengo span fully zoomed in on max resolution.
Ultimately, and I think as most people have suggested, I find the only way is to loop the drums around with the bassline and shift the drum tunings around a few semitones either way (and then cents if necessary) until the mix clears up. But this can take a while too (especially if using a lot of toms) – and the thing is, whatever adjustments I make, I do find transfers over to other songs in similar (or similarly non-clashing) keys.
So, OK, this being the case, it means that I can make notes as I go along, and speed up the process in future (e.g. for songs in D, tune a certain kick up a semitone) but this also suggests some notes could also be provided by Toontrack on which keys the factory tuning of the drums are “compatible” or not with.
Anyway, this is nitpicking I know, but would still be curious to hear a Toontrack employees response, as I feel more info about the tunings is something which could significantly speed up workflow with SD3.
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Thanked by: ohnowRodney FergusonLook up drum tuning and you will see that lots of drummers tune to a pitch.
There is an app from Tune-Bot that looks really good. It uses frequency guides which are also based on drum size.
Seems that the toms are tuned to intervals of your choosing. Each artist is of course different but it is good to know when looking for a particular sound.
As Toontrack users we would probably only reference the fundamental pitch as there is top and bottom tuning as well.
Regards
Rodney
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Thanked by: alligatorlizard
mickgI’m not sure why they don’t give pitches. That’s something that would be easier to do while recording the kits. I’m an actual drummer and it’s not something that I make a conscience effort to match to the track, although I do play with the tuning till it sounds right.
Next time I build a kit I’ll check for fundamental pitch and perhaps we can start a drum pitch database for stock kits.
Mick
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Thanked by: tkabd and alligatorlizardNo products in the cart.
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