Is there a way to adjust panning on user saved instruments independently?

[bpjacobsen]

As you may have seen in my other recent thread, I have been saving a lot of instrument presets as user instruments when assigning my e-kit pads. I do this in order to essentially copy the sound of a tom for example to maintain consistency without having to spend a bunch of time trying to apply all the mixer settings to the added tom. However, the main caveat to this is it does not appear that I have the ability to adjust panning on a separate mixer channel, at least that I know how to do. For example, I save tom1 as a user instrument then add it to my 6 inch tom which is further to the left. But since saving it from rack tom1 seems to tie to the same channel but while copying all the presets, then I can’t adjust panning independently and have to essentially throw it somewhere towards the middle so it at least sounds consistent between the two. So two questions:

1. Is there an option within the drums tab to add panning that I am missing, so I can adjust panning for each instrument regardless of what other Tom it was saved from?
2. Assuming no, how can I split the added instrument easily without having to give up the actual preset sounds I saved it from so I can adjust panning properly?

• This topic was modified 2 months ago by bpjacobsen.
• This topic was modified 2 months ago by bpjacobsen.

Topic

[drumjack52]

To answer question 1 panning is one of those things that is not controllable from the drums tab. There’s all kinds of controls but panning is not one of them. The answer to question 2 might be akin to what you had to do in the renaming situation and look at the file for the saved as instrument and see if there’s something there that relates to panning. Problem is we don’t know for certain where the panning gets it’s parameters from – is it hard coded in the mixer or the instrument itself. I just tried changing the kick drum which is centered in the mixer for a floor tom and it’s still centered so by that I’m thinking the panning is hard coded in the mixer. Is that really it? Not sure. But it sure explains what you’re seeing. To me that would mean that the instrument save as ignores any panning by design. Sucks doesn’t it?

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

• This post was modified 2 months ago by drumjack52.

[bpjacobsen]

drumjack52 wrote:

To answer question 1 panning is one of those things that is not controllable from the drums tab. There’s all kinds of controls but panning is not one of them. The answer to question 2 might be akin to what you had to do in the renaming situation and look at the file for the saved as instrument and see if there’s something there that relates to panning. Problem is we don’t know for certain where the panning gets it’s parameters from – is it hard coded in the mixer or the instrument itself. I just tried changing the kick drum which is centered in the mixer for a floor tom and it’s still centered so by that I’m thinking the panning is hard coded in the mixer. Is that really it? Not sure. But it sure explains what you’re seeing. To me that would mean that the instrument save as ignores any panning by design. Sucks doesn’t it?

• This post was modified 2 months ago by drumjack52.

It seems to vary. Some instruments are in their own channel on the mixer and can be adjusted. I have also noticed that cymbal options have varying panning built in. So if a cymbal loads with the wrong pan, I have to go in and replace with one that is set to the opposite. Seems like the cymbals have hard coded panning in them as there is no separate channel per cymbal like there is with the toms. weird.

[drumjack52]

Definitely weird. The cymbals are a strange situation as at least for the overheads – wish there were separate mics for the cymbals but we all know that never happens in any ‘normal’ situation. The phase differential and bleed would be a nightmare.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[Andrew Payne]

You can route a cymbal to its own user mic channel and I do this all the time. I usually use the main OH channel routed to the new user channel also route the cymbal into another OH channel (if it exists) and if another OH doesn’t exist in that kit piece I route an ambient mid channel (or similar) to the OH. I then pan the user mic channel for the cymbal accordingly and decrease OH bleed if the pan doesn’t come out strongly enough. I have never had any issues with phasing. Happy to show the setup if that helps ? I do this for all my cymbals and I normally have more than 10. cheers, Andrew

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: Windows 10

Dell Precision 7730, i7 6 Core 2.6 GHz, 128GB RAM, 1TB SSD and 3 x 2TB SSD, Windows 11, Cubase Pro 14, SD3 plus a variety of SDX's and EZX's, Orchestral Percussion, EZBASS, RME BabyFace Pro FS and KRK V4 monitors. Modified Yamaha DTX900, DTXPRESS4 and Edrumin10 triggering SD3. Yamaha pads/cymbals and Roland VH-10 HiHat. PDP Maple acoustic kit for live playing.

[bpjacobsen]

Andrew Payne wrote:

You can route a cymbal to its own user mic channel and I do this all the time. I usually use the main OH channel routed to the new user channel also route the cymbal into another OH channel (if it exists) and if another OH doesn’t exist in that kit piece I route an ambient mid channel (or similar) to the OH. I then pan the user mic channel for the cymbal accordingly and decrease OH bleed if the pan doesn’t come out strongly enough. I have never had any issues with phasing. Happy to show the setup if that helps ? I do this for all my cymbals and I normally have more than 10. cheers, Andrew

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: Windows 10

Yes, please do share screenshots of setup for an example. While I have managed with status quo, always looking to learn another way. Thanks!

[drumjack52]

bpjacobsen wrote:

Andrew Payne wrote:

You can route a cymbal to its own user mic channel and I do this all the time. I usually use the main OH channel routed to the new user channel also route the cymbal into another OH channel (if it exists) and if another OH doesn’t exist in that kit piece I route an ambient mid channel (or similar) to the OH. I then pan the user mic channel for the cymbal accordingly and decrease OH bleed if the pan doesn’t come out strongly enough. I have never had any issues with phasing. Happy to show the setup if that helps ? I do this for all my cymbals and I normally have more than 10. cheers, Andrew

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: Windows 10

Yes, please do share screenshots of setup for an example. While I have managed with status quo, always looking to learn another way. Thanks!

Yes Andrew – please share what you have. Thanks.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[Andrew Payne]

As far as I know all panning is via mixer tab and not part of drums tab. Some screenshots for how I set up my cymbals. I only use single mic channel plus OH as this is all I use (and need) for recording. You could bleed into other channels but gets more complicated to control. Hope it helps

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: Windows 10

Dell Precision 7730, i7 6 Core 2.6 GHz, 128GB RAM, 1TB SSD and 3 x 2TB SSD, Windows 11, Cubase Pro 14, SD3 plus a variety of SDX's and EZX's, Orchestral Percussion, EZBASS, RME BabyFace Pro FS and KRK V4 monitors. Modified Yamaha DTX900, DTXPRESS4 and Edrumin10 triggering SD3. Yamaha pads/cymbals and Roland VH-10 HiHat. PDP Maple acoustic kit for live playing.

[John]

Hi,

saving a User Instrument saves properties on the Drum page (like level, tuning, envelope, etc) and if you have made any stacking and/or importing of samples.

If I load a User Instrument that e.g. is a Stack with a Toontrack Library Snare, a user sample Snare and a user sample Clap and have saved this with a particular library, room and mic setup it doesn’t necessarily load as saved in another scenario. An example: I create above User Stack and clear all routings of the Snare’s microphones except Top and Bottom; I route the Clap to the AMB mic and create a new User X-Channel for the user sample Snare, then save my User Instrument.

The next time I recall the User Instrument, I must be aware that the currently loaded Library and preset “sets the stage”, so to speak. My User Instrument Snare Stack will most likely sound right when it comes to the Top and Bottom mics and probably the AMB mic too but the User created X-channel does not yet exist in the new setup, so I have to either route my User Snare sample Stack Layer’s mic to an existing mic or create a new one. This kind of scenario, that a loaded instrument does not produce sound because of missing routing, can actually happen outside of the User Instruments’ one. But I digress. The Microphone Routing page is also your friend when it comes to e.g. splitting out Cymbals from a Stereo OH microphone; you simply create a new microphone/mixer channel for the Close signal.

If you want to save more than properties on the Drums page for an instrument, you will have to save a User Library Preset or Project. You can save Mixer channel Presets as well.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

4

Thanked by: Andrew Payne, Bear-Faced Cow, drumjack52 and 1 other.

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