Robert ShaploEZKeys is an excellent piece of software, however what I find holds it back are the MIDI packs. The are really nothing more than mix and match prewritten songs that don’t lend themselves to anything original but a predetermined song by the artist for hire. I would much prefer small snippets of cliched parts that bare no resemblance to any ‘song’ but can be strung together to form ‘your’ original piece. Not someone else’s. In it’s simplest form musical performance is made up of small cliches strung together. For us non keyboardists I think that would lend itself to more original pieces. What say you ? How do you go about writing ‘original’ songs with EZKeys ?
ScottI never use the EZkeys MIDI packs “as is”.
I’m a non keyboard playing guitarist songwriter and when I want to add keys to my songs I’m importing my guitar track into EZkeys2 and browsing the MIDI packs with my chord progression (even adding extensions) and using the Replace MIDI function to add a custom performance to my songs.
Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
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Thanked by: Scott Eshleman
Bear-Faced CowI would have to disagree. The MIDI is not a weak point. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The fact that I can wrap a MIDI groove around a progression that I write is a pretty powerful feature. Not to mention that it could sound like anything unlike the original groove progression. Scott’s methodology is but one way of making the MIDI your own. There are also tools such as Suggest Chords, the Circle of Fifths, and let ‘s not forget Bandmate. So many ways for a non-keyboardist to get a progression down and then attach a style (which is pretty much what you are doing with a groove against your own progression).
Just because there are a bunch of grooves associated with the song, which is really nothing more than a collection of grooves. In this case, it doesn’t mean that you are locked into using only the grooves in that song. Mix and match. I am off and finding myself borrowing from different songs. You can even start with the basic sequence such as an ostinato or break up a song with it.
The only real limits in this case are the ones you are applying.
jord
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Thanked by: Scott EshlemanRobert ShaploGreat, thanks for responding guys. OK, let’s put this to the test. Here’s my ‘original’ idea, this is the Inrto I’m hearing in my mind. How do I get this exact Intro from concept to reality using EZKeys ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K9S1jF5IY4&list=OLAK5uy_m1ei-Hb9h7_bSX0Tnxq79l_Wxa7QeMcCs&index=19
Robert ShaploI would have to disagree. The MIDI is not a weak point. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The fact that I can wrap a MIDI groove around a progression that I write is a pretty powerful feature. Not to mention that it could sound like anything unlike the original groove progression. Scott’s methodology is but one way of making the MIDI your own. There are also tools such as Suggest Chords, the Circle of Fifths, and let ‘s not forget Bandmate. So many ways for a non-keyboardist to get a progression down and then attach a style (which is pretty much what you are doing with a groove against your own progression).
Just because there are a bunch of grooves associated with the song, which is really nothing more than a collection of grooves. In this case, it doesn’t mean that you are locked into using only the grooves in that song. Mix and match. I am off and finding myself borrowing from different songs. You can even start with the basic sequence such as an ostinato or break up a song with it.
The only real limits in this case are the ones you are applying.
jord
It seems to me, and please correct me if I’m wrong, that irregardless of how many iterations you go through EZK2 is still giving you the progression. Which is brilliant, and why I bought both 1&2. However I often write, by first hearing an idea in my mind and then bringing it out with my guitar(s). I don’t see how this can be accomplished with EZK2. It seems to me that EZK will give you the progression, and you then have to follow that… not the other way around. If I’m wrong, then produce the Intro I just posted above and tell us how you did it.
Scott EshlemanAs I understand it and in my own user experience with EZKeys2, the ‘Replace MIDI‘ function of EZKeys2
allows the user to apply the playing style(s) and groove(s) found in the app’s MIDI Groove Libraries to their entered chord sequences.
I’ve not really expected EZKeys2 to create melodies or lead lines.
Perhaps MIDI suggested by the Bandmate function is closer to those types of results…
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Thanked by: Bear-Faced CowBear-Faced CowI would have to disagree. The MIDI is not a weak point. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The fact that I can wrap a MIDI groove around a progression that I write is a pretty powerful feature. Not to mention that it could sound like anything unlike the original groove progression. Scott’s methodology is but one way of making the MIDI your own. There are also tools such as Suggest Chords, the Circle of Fifths, and let ‘s not forget Bandmate. So many ways for a non-keyboardist to get a progression down and then attach a style (which is pretty much what you are doing with a groove against your own progression).
Just because there are a bunch of grooves associated with the song, which is really nothing more than a collection of grooves. In this case, it doesn’t mean that you are locked into using only the grooves in that song. Mix and match. I am off and finding myself borrowing from different songs. You can even start with the basic sequence such as an ostinato or break up a song with it.
The only real limits in this case are the ones you are applying.
jord
It seems to me, and please correct me if I’m wrong, that irregardless of how many iterations you go through EZK2 is still giving you the progression. Which is brilliant, and why I bought both 1&2. However I often write, by first hearing an idea in my mind and then bringing it out with my guitar(s). I don’t see how this can be accomplished with EZK2. It seems to me that EZK will give you the progression, and you then have to follow that… not the other way around. If I’m wrong, then produce the Intro I just posted above and tell us how you did it.
EZkeys version: 2.0.4
Operating system: Windows 10
What will stealing the intro to Locomotive Breath accomplish in this case? It’s a useless test that has no relevance to what you originally posted. If fact, if all you wanted was that intro, all you would be doing is feeding into your limitation. The premise of MIDI in EZKeys was to take your idea and wrap a MIDI style around it.
Why can’t you take what is on your mind and put it into EZKeys? Bandmate is rather capable of deciphering the chords you played on the guitar and suggesting a rhythmic musical style to accompany your guitar work. You can also note the progression that you played on guitar manually into EZKeys and use “Replace MIDI” as Scott pointed out.
This isn’t a fault with EZKeys here. Perhaps, you’re confusing it as some sort of lead instrument rather that songwriting accompaniment.
jord
ScottThe “keys following my chord progression” is easy. See the link above to the Replace MIDI video. It does exactly that. Either map out your song chord progression manually or use the Bandmate tab.
If you’re looking for EZkeys to take a single melody line and create a chord progression then no it’s not going to do that. But it will take your chord progression and make a keyboard chord part.
Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
2
Thanked by: Scott Eshleman and Bear-Faced CowRobert ShaploI was hoping to get closer to what my idea(s) are, but find EZK2 seems to often pull in a different direction. Therefore I find it easier to take just some parts of what EZK2 produces and then record the rest in myself . I’m hoping that by EZK3 TT may bring us closer to achieving that. Nonetheless EZK2 is a brilliant piece of software.
I’ll just add, as Scott had said:
” the ‘Replace MIDI‘ function of EZKeys2 allows the user to apply the playing style(s) and groove(s) found in the app’s MIDI Groove Libraries to their entered chord sequences.”
I believe if I add to my library, meaning creating my own MIDI grooves that might broaden my options and bring it closer to my personal style of playing. Even though TT has a large library there are only a limited amount of MIDI packs that suit my style.
Bear-Faced CowThat really doesn’t sound like an EZKeys issue here.
There are a bunch of tools and possibilities listed above. Not to mention dismissing various MIDI packs due to their genre without considering the possibilities.
jord
ShootieHeavy Hitter Hang Out on this thread!
Robert, it’s great you’re identifying your problem. EZKeys has tools to help you solve it though. You just need to keep grinding for experience. An example that has yet to be mentioned…
If a midi file is playing a melody, it is hard to call that your own… for sure! But the vibe is there. Turn on Highlight Keys in the Grid Editor to the key your playing in, and nudge some notes up or down the scale and bam, you have your own melody that was inspired by the prefab midi.
As to your original question at face value. There are folders in EZK2, Organ EKX (and maybe a few more) that have, pads, riffs, ostinatos, and arpeggios. This combined with Edit Play Style, Suggest Chords, and the above mentioned Highlight Keys allows you to produce this midi so much that is does not resemble itself anymore.
I really like the quality of TT midi, but that doesn’t stop me from using 3rd party midi and TT products have great integration for it.
EZD3 Tutorials | EZBass Tutorials | Toontrack themed FB Group | Toontrack themed Discord Group
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Thanked by: Scott Eshleman and Bear-Faced Cow
Glenn Stantoni wish i had more budget to get MORE MIDI packs. however, i use EZK (and EZB) to act as another musician with their input to my ideas around a song progression. and since i focus a lot on arrangement, i’ll divide up the songs even if they have similar progression across parts, and using the replace MIDI to find something which i think will perform in that section like i think another musician might interpret it.
so, for example, in a “quieter” section where i need less going on so the vocal or solo can be highlighted (later), then i’ll find MIDI grooves which essentially “back off” while keeping the general feel (and one reason i like the song groupings because i can generally find something – either full on (or can be tweaked) to do the “performance”. sometimes getting things to fit though may also involve using several genres across instruments and sections, as well as instrument selection.
so, i’m looking forward to more 50% off sales on MIDI packs 🙂 as well as it would be nice to have some more time signatures (hint hint).
cheers!
Glenn
www.runnel.com
www.reverbnation.com/fossile
Robert ShaploHeavy Hitter Hang Out on this thread!
Robert, it’s great you’re identifying your problem. EZKeys has tools to help you solve it though. You just need to keep grinding for experience. An example that has yet to be mentioned…
If a midi file is playing a melody, it is hard to call that your own… for sure! But the vibe is there. Turn on Highlight Keys in the Grid Editor to the key your playing in, and nudge some notes up or down the scale and bam, you have your own melody that was inspired by the prefab midi.
As to your original question at face value. There are folders in EZK2, Organ EKX (and maybe a few more) that have, pads, riffs, ostinatos, and arpeggios. This combined with Edit Play Style, Suggest Chords, and the above mentioned Highlight Keys allows you to produce this midi so much that is does not resemble itself anymore.
I really like the quality of TT midi, but that doesn’t stop me from using 3rd party midi and TT products have great integration for it.
Hey Shootie, thanks for the response. That’s an interesting take, I will definitely give it a try.
I believe what would suit me better is EZBass – Audio Tracker. Whereas I can play in the parts via guitar audio, convert to midi and have EZK2 play it back. I don’t have EZB and don’t know if it can handle chords… probably not. Though that’s easily handled in the editor. Or even better… learn to play keyboards !!
Here’s a good example of EZBass @ 6:20 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37Qu2qyebww
I think a mix of EZB Audio Tracker for the Rick Wakeman-esque keyboard flourishes and playing in the chord parts my self via MIDI controller would best suit my needs. One might say that EZK2 wasn’t the right purchase to make, though I’d disagree in that the Sound Expansions are killer and worth the price of admission.
Speaking of your YouTube channel – see what I did there – if you find the time this would be a great tutorial to make. BTW, your channel is excellent and on my play list.
Thanks….
Robert Shaploi wish i had more budget to get MORE MIDI packs. however, i use EZK (and EZB) to act as another musician with their input to my ideas around a song progression. and since i focus a lot on arrangement, i’ll divide up the songs even if they have similar progression across parts, and using the replace MIDI to find something which i think will perform in that section like i think another musician might interpret it.
so, for example, in a “quieter” section where i need less going on so the vocal or solo can be highlighted (later), then i’ll find MIDI grooves which essentially “back off” while keeping the general feel (and one reason i like the song groupings because i can generally find something – either full on (or can be tweaked) to do the “performance”. sometimes getting things to fit though may also involve using several genres across instruments and sections, as well as instrument selection.
so, i’m looking forward to more 50% off sales on MIDI packs 🙂 as well as it would be nice to have some more time signatures (hint hint).
cheers!
EZkeys version: 2.0.4
Operating system: Windows 11
- This post was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Glenn Stanton.
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You might want to also consider creating your own midi packs which would be closer to what you’re song(s) call for. If not very good at keys, play it in half speed and speed it up accordingly as George Martin did for ‘In My Life’.
Glenn Stantonthanks! yes, i do quite a bit of my own MIDI in a variety of tools, and often tweak the MIDI from the grooves input if it needs some TLC. in general, i’m looking for the grooves to provide a different perspective that i did not create exactly.
i’m an OK keyboard player w/ slight sight reading. cheers!
Glenn
www.runnel.com
www.reverbnation.com/fossile
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