rgarber(update 3/22) PLEASE NOTE: This thread took part over a couple of days and in subsequent posts, if you read down to my last posts you’ll see I learned something about EZ Keys that I get it now. If you’re undecided about EZ Keys like I was, you might want to read my 3/22 post where it discusses the Split tool which is not discussed in any detail in the manual, that I could find. I get it now. 🙂
My copy of EZ Keys is running fine. No problem there. My dilemma is I don’t get the point of the package. It’s coming across to me more like a Loop splicing tool where I’m limited to mixing and matching pre-played piano splices with some ability to change chords where needed. And I can import midi’s and all, that’s pretty easy. But where does the song development part come in at? Since I bought EZ Keys I reckon I’m stuck with it but even at that, I just don’t see where for someone familiar with writing software, where this program even has a purpose.
I’ve read the manual and it’s pretty short. Nothing against that but am I missing something? I gather I just can’t type in chords at will, right? And worse, I can’t apply the midi patterns to my own set of chords if the chord changes don’t match where I would want my changes to take place unless I find a pattern that matches my own, right? I did import a midi with no problems but I couldn’t figure out how to merge their playing prowess with the chords I desired.
If this stuff can be done, then great, but I can’t see how to do it without butchering the pre-made stuff first and I just wonder how long does it take to do that especially with a complex chord change. I also didn’t see where I could set markers so I could know where I’m at in the song either.
Trust me, after shelling out the bucks for EZ Keys, I’m not in the mood for venting. What I can’t see is how to use the program in a serious situation. Possibly working with very small clips and building a new song in a DAW, maybe?? I’m worried that to get any use out of EZ Keys that it will mean lots of workarounds and shoot, I got this other program, Band In The Box – and to get what I want to do with it, I got to do workarounds with it. I had hoped the way I understood the video promoting EZ Keys that this software would be an awesome if not only a song development platform but also a song accompaniment package as well.
I’m just totally lost with this package in that I think it’s just a Loop-like tool where you work with pre-set recordings and mix and match. No offense to the Loopers, just trying to understand what I bought (verses what I thought I was getting).
Rich
(update 3/22) PLEASE NOTE: This thread took part over a couple of days and in subsequent posts, if you read down to my last posts you’ll see I learned something about EZ Keys that I get it now. If you’re undecided about EZ Keys like I was, you might want to read my 3/22 post where it discusses the Split tool which is not discussed in any detail in the manual, that I could find. I get it now. 🙂
My copy of EZ Keys is running fine. No problem there. My dilemma is I don’t get the point of the package. It’s coming across to me more like a Loop splicing tool where I’m limited to mixing and matching pre-played piano splices with some ability to change chords where needed. And I can import midi’s and all, that’s pretty easy. But where does the song development part come in at? Since I bought EZ Keys I reckon I’m stuck with it but even at that, I just don’t see where for someone familiar with writing software, where this program even has a purpose.
I’ve read the manual and it’s pretty short. Nothing against that but am I missing something? I gather I just can’t type in chords at will, right? And worse, I can’t apply the midi patterns to my own set of chords if the chord changes don’t match where I would want my changes to take place unless I find a pattern that matches my own, right? I did import a midi with no problems but I couldn’t figure out how to merge their playing prowess with the chords I desired.
If this stuff can be done, then great, but I can’t see how to do it without butchering the pre-made stuff first and I just wonder how long does it take to do that especially with a complex chord change. I also didn’t see where I could set markers so I could know where I’m at in the song either.
Trust me, after shelling out the bucks for EZ Keys, I’m not in the mood for venting. What I can’t see is how to use the program in a serious situation. Possibly working with very small clips and building a new song in a DAW, maybe?? I’m worried that to get any use out of EZ Keys that it will mean lots of workarounds and shoot, I got this other program, Band In The Box – and to get what I want to do with it, I got to do workarounds with it. I had hoped the way I understood the video promoting EZ Keys that this software would be an awesome if not only a song development platform but also a song accompaniment package as well.
I’m just totally lost with this package in that I think it’s just a Loop-like tool where you work with pre-set recordings and mix and match. No offense to the Loopers, just trying to understand what I bought (verses what I thought I was getting).
Rich
WhittenORIGINAL: tombuur
So to me EZK is still mainly a loop arranger
It isn’t. It’s a virtual piano instrument with a midi library. They just expanded the midi library concept beyond how it was implemented in EZdrummer and Superior.
Having said that, I get that you are frustrated and have made suggestions Toontrack could implement, and they sound like reasonable suggestions.
rgarber@Tombour… I’ve only had EZ Keys for just a few days, I by no means have a full grasp of its abilities or limitations. When I wrote my original post I said I didn’t get it because IMO, without the feature to do basic editing of chord placement – I didn’t see how they could advertise EZ Keys as being a ‘song development’ platform. I’m strictly down in the chord window where chords are dragged to, nowhere else at the moment. I’m not really trying to critique the rest of the program. Since the manual didn’t discuss Split at any length, it looked to me the chord placement substitution could only happen where chords were already present; in the patterns. To me, that is Loop construction when all you can do is mix and match preset patterns. Now that I have a better understanding of the undocumented Split feature – at least where I am at now – I can see a path where EZ Keys will be useful.
Let me add to this briefly. You can’t imagine my relief when I saw the Split feature does what it can do. First of all, nobody wants to look stupid in making a bad purchase. I thought I was incredibly stupid for having spent so much on something I wasn’t sure of what it did when there was already a demo. But understand, it’s the idea of what EZ Keys can do which is so compelling that my usual ‘safe side’ instead rushed to purchase.
Secondly, and just for context, goto Soundclick.com and look up Living Waters Jazz. It’s instrumental big band music of which I do the composition (big help from BITB there), arranging and then the rendering with samples. Every one of my songs has one major fault. The piano part, either generated by me or taken from BITB – doesn’t match the song. I’m a sax player, not a piano player, and if there’s anybody who envies the piano player, it’s me! This whole industry of digital music ASSUMES the only person developing digital music is a piano player. And rightly so, I guess. So just alone, the piano accompaniment feature of EZ Keys is a miracle worker – if it works out to a degree where it’s easier than what I do now – and provides parts more suitable for the songs I’m arranging.
I’m right there with the critique that we should be allowed to include our own variations in the presets as well as adding a preset to a brand new chord progression. Not to mention what other suggestions others or Toontrack ends up adding to EZ Keys.
As someone who used to play in bands, I miss the invaluable contribution of other members in the band made made to the totality of the composition. In rendering, it’s all up to me. For instance, what the piano player brings to a band is something I can’t replicate as a sax player. So if someone builds into a music program the ability like what EZ Keys offer (where I can drag the presets that match what I’m looking for into my renderings), well, that’s like having a real person at your disposal – is it not? That’s what’s incredible about EZ Keys that I jumped on.
This is a program I want to see succeed, and not fail. (By the way, I’m not suggesting that anybody here wants to see EZ Keys fail.) I want to stress that even from the original post I made, that my opinions were underpinned with a desire to see EZ Keys work as I thought it could when I made my purchase.
rgarber@tombur #2:
“I still can’t find a way to “lock” chords so that the next variation dragged down into the songtrack will follow my chosen chords. I can change the chords, but as soon as I audition a new clip all my choisen chords are lost, and I have to start over again.”
What I intend to do on this is save the file to my own folder (or library of sorts). This is an issue I have with EZ Drummer too. Two issues:
1) Description limitation: I never can find easily what I’m looking for. Either drummer’s lingo isn’t in my blood or the variety of patterns in the way they are described is lost on me.
2) There’s so many that I wouldn’t use being all I do is jazz, that I would like a library of presets to choose from that’s all my own that match the song development I do.
So I like the idea I can load up midis. So what I intend to do is create my own library of midi’s to load from my own folder rather than trying to figure the difference from variation 1 to variation 4 – and give them a description I can understand. And since it be my chords I wouldn’t have to rely on the chord changer COF thingy to do my dirty work though I do like having it there for quick changes. I also like the transposition feature if I need to change the chords to another key.
I haven’t done any of this, mind you, I’m just assuming I can do this from what I’ve seen thus far.
Somebody said this elsewhere that they think the library is limited so expansion packs will be offered. I’m all for that. I rather concentrate on the kind of music I do being put in the preset library than have a ton of presets I wouldn’t use. At the same time… somebody tell Toontrack to hurry up with those things!! (with the expansion packs I mean).
jerry JaborekSomebody said this elsewhere that they think the library is limited so expansion packs will be offered. I’m all for that. I rather concentrate on the kind of music I do being put in the preset library than have a ton of presets I wouldn’t use. At the same time… somebody tell Toontrack to hurry up with those things!! (with the expansion packs I mean).
I really hope someone over at Toontrack steps up and decides to beef up EZ Key’s current library to something worthy of $179.00.
If we have to shell out another $89.00 (on top of the original price) for an expansion that only then brings it up to snuff, I’m gonna be disappointed in their company goals. Especially in todays current economy.
Cygnus64ORIGINAL: rgarber
Okay, I do get it now. Part of the problem is the only thing covered about this in the manual
There are a few other things that are of interest. I’m a manual-skipper so I tend not to read them but some other features that may be of interest that I discovered:
1. Slash Chords. In the circle thingy, open up “details” and you’ll see where one can use slash chords.
2. 5ths. Again in “details”, hold down the “5” and one can make it dim or aug. The same with 9ths and 11ths.
The slash chord is a really good feature. BTW, the “chord notation tool” basically does the same thing that the circle of fifths wheel does, it just does it in a different way. It might be helpful to some to see it in a more up/down fashion, it’s also an easy way to pick slash chords.
rgarberThanks for the tips. I’ve had a chance to work with EZ Keys a little more and I can see where between the DAW’s capabilities and EZ Keys, there’s a lot to explore in possibility.
Kip CountORIGINAL: jerjabs
Somebody said this elsewhere that they think the library is limited so expansion packs will be offered. I’m all for that. I rather concentrate on the kind of music I do being put in the preset library than have a ton of presets I wouldn’t use. At the same time… somebody tell Toontrack to hurry up with those things!! (with the expansion packs I mean).
I really hope someone over at Toontrack steps up and decides to beef up EZ Key’s current library to something worthy of $179.00.
If we have to shell out another $89.00 (on top of the original price) for an expansion that only then brings it up to snuff, I’m gonna be disappointed in their company goals. Especially in todays current economy.
If they pull what they did with the EZmix preset expansions, you can be sure any expansion material for EZkeys will NOT come without a beefy price tag. I hope they prove me wrong on that, but seeing as EZmix version 1 preset packs are 50 bucks, I can easily see EZkeys expansions dropping around 80 bucks. If so, I’ll be content with the stock sounds and library that come with EZkeys.
Mac Mini M1 | Studio One 6 | PreSonus 68c | EZD3
WhittenBut if you are talking about expanding the library, Toon midi libraries are 25euro, about $33!
Whitten Of course, but some here are already predicting a price and complaining.
Fact is, a midi library expansion would likely be around $35, based on other Toon products.
If an organ or electric piano had been extensively multi-sampled, the $80 price guessed at by Skiltrip could be well justified.
rgarberSo you’re saying that EZ Drummer is kinda like an expanded Sample format on steroids? And EZ Keys is going in that direction too? If that’s the case then I would ask Toontrack if they would please include some way in both programs where we can either annotate favorite patterns or give us some way to identify these patterns we’ve used but in our own words. Once I move a clip into the DAW, it’s rare I can ever find that clip again in the presets.
In general I’m in favor of this idea, I don’t see the harm in it. Including a sample, I mean. After all you can always substitute the EZ sampled instruments with your own if you got to.
There’s always going to be a fuss over cost, as long as the quality is pretty good I don’t complain on that.
Earlier I messed up and misinterpreted the classical guy’s post where I mistook his use of EZ for something else (like “easy”) – but after you posted what you did just now, suddenly I get the “EZ idea” isn’t just a cute label but a programming theme that can be applied elsewhere. That’s good and makes sense, to me, I just hope EZ Keys is pushed to the limits because this is one heck of a powerful idea that for the life of me I don’t understand why it hasn’t come years sooner.
WhittenYou can make your own folder in the EZkeys library can’t you, and import midi to that?
(I read it somewhere, haven’t tried it myself).
rgarberYou can?? I don’t think you can but if it could be done I don’t think anybody would be suggesting the feature to be added. But then again, this program does have a few tricks up its sleeve, you just got to hunt for them. For instance, trying to chase down the rabbit trail you just sent me off on I did find that if you right click on the pattern displayed in the edit window, there is an option Find Preset (which will highlight where the preset came from – in the library). That’s helpful. But as far as saving your own preset into the library, it’s been said enough times it can’t be done. But hey, if you know how or can locate that post, be awfully helpful. Thanks.
JohnYou can Add/Mount (right-click the leftmost column) folders with your own MIDI, which will be visible right next to the EZKeys content. You can also drag patterns to the Favorites section of the Browser window. This goes for both the stock files and edited patterns from the Song Track.
BR,
John
John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
rgarberOh wow! EZ Keys is becoming more likeable by the post!! LOL!! That’s great! So am I seeing the potential in this right? I could import a BITB generated piano progression, for example, and add it to the library… then at any point after that use my saved preset, change chords if I want… man alive, that’s awesome! Definetly a smilie for that!
I think they ought to provide a link in the manual to this forum.
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