bpjacobsenBefore taking the plunge and purchasing SD3, I had asked someone from sales if SD3 would support my giant ekit and I was told yes. But this thread says it’s not possible?
I really hope the above is false info b/c I just spent $400 on this software and really hope to goodness, I’m going to be able to add the 30 pads I need to map. My kit has 8 octobans, 7 toms, kick, snare, HH, cowbell, 5 jam blocks and 6 cymbals. It’s a monster. I was told by multiple people in Vdrums forum, and again, someone from toontrack it was possible in SD3 but not in ezd which is why I bought SD3 (on top of the many additional features and extensive library it has) I have searched all over you tube and cannot find any video on how to setup a large ekit with this. “So Please, Please, Please, let me let me let me…….get what I want…..this time” lol
bpjacobsenNVM, I think I found my answer in this other TT thread: https://www.toontrack.com/forums/topic/kit-configurations-in-sd3/#:~:text=just%20’Add%20Instrument’%20in%20the,instruments%20you%20want%20to%20add.
Andrew PayneAs you are probs now aware you can add as many “user instruments” as you like to any SD3 or SDX library. I use 2 modules and have a total of 49 triggers as most pads and cymbals are 3 zone. I have a 6 tom setup so I just add extra tom user instruments on SDX libraries that don’t have that number of toms so you should be able to use all of your drums. cheers, Andrew
Dell Precision 7730, i7 6 Core 2.6 GHz, 128GB RAM, 1TB SSD and 3 x 2TB SSD, Windows 11, Cubase Pro 14, SD3 plus a variety of SDX's and EZX's, Orchestral Percussion, EZBASS, RME BabyFace Pro FS and KRK V4 monitors. Modified Yamaha DTX900, DTXPRESS4 and Edrumin10 triggering SD3. Yamaha pads/cymbals and Roland VH-10 HiHat. PDP Maple acoustic kit for live playing.
pumpkinkingI have merged two Alesis kits (Crimson II and Surge) and added 8 lemon cymbals and the current setup has 20 individual pieces. All works fine in SD3, but I’ve made two significant changes: 1) I abandoned the Alesis modules in favor of two software controllable eDrumin modules (much faster to config IMO and more controllable), and 2) I do not use all trigger points from all pieces (for example, most toms do not have rim triggers configured). This second point helps maintain a large number of playable pieces while keeping the MIDI mapping burden down. I do have the most important pieces fully mapped and configured (snare, hihat, ride, etc).
bpjacobsenSo my follow up question: How do I change which pad in the graphic responds to a give drum pad from my kit? Ex. right now, when I hit my 8 inch tom in the kit, the graphic shows it is mapped to a floor tom. How do I match them up per say? So when I hit the 8 inch tom, it shows the 8 inch/left most rack tom registering the hit in the graphic? Please keep in mind, this is all new to me. only experience I have is a day or two of SSD5 trial and a few days of EZD. but this SD3 obviously has more stuff and you can’t add kit pieces in EZD like you can with SD3. Just need to get my head on straight with this and get on a roll (pun intended) with organizing my arrangement. making sure stuff makes sense. I don’t wanna have a floor tom that is mapped to an 8 inch rack tom etc.
Side note: My plan is to eventually sell the modules in favor of a 2 edrummin 10 trigger modules. I have heard great things about them and they have better triggering apparently + then all control will be in the computer and no more tiny screen on the module or having to make adjustments in both. Unfortunately, they are out of stock and will be for a while so this is what I’m stuck with for now. (unless I can somehow find someone selling theirs but then again, buying used stuff like this makes me nervous)
bpjacobsenI have merged two Alesis kits (Crimson II and Surge) and added 8 lemon cymbals and the current setup has 20 individual pieces. All works fine in SD3, but I’ve made two significant changes: 1) I abandoned the Alesis modules in favor of two software controllable eDrumin modules (much faster to config IMO and more controllable), and 2) I do not use all trigger points from all pieces (for example, most toms do not have rim triggers configured). This second point helps maintain a large number of playable pieces while keeping the MIDI mapping burden down. I do have the most important pieces fully mapped and configured (snare, hihat, ride, etc).
Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS Ventura (13)
So for my kit as pictured, how many edrumins would I need? my total pad count including cymbals is 30. but I too don’t use rims on toms so they are all split. so it’s 2 toms per TRS. The cymbals are all using 2 zones so I can have choke/edge/bow. The ride is actually using a tom port for the bell b/c I was having issues with the 3 zone ride working properly on the strike so I sorta gave up on that and it works much better as a single zone. this might change with the edrumin which would free up that one port for one of the toms. So:
I’m removing the extra tom so there will be 6 of those. and probably selling the set of E-jam blocks. so I think 2 edrumin 8s should be enough:
6 toms divided by 2 zones per tom = 3 ports
8 octobans will need 4 ports
then that 8th port can handle the 2 zone snare
So then the 2nd edrumin 8 would handle 6 cymbals including the 3 zone ride and the kick + hi hat. So I guess I will be short one for the cowbell. Dang! Oh well, close enough. lol then I’m cutting costs + the 8 is going back in stock next month! (yay!) whereas the 10 won’t be back until March 2024. (boooo!)
pumpkinkingI have merged two Alesis kits (Crimson II and Surge) and added 8 lemon cymbals and the current setup has 20 individual pieces. All works fine in SD3, but I’ve made two significant changes: 1) I abandoned the Alesis modules in favor of two software controllable eDrumin modules (much faster to config IMO and more controllable), and 2) I do not use all trigger points from all pieces (for example, most toms do not have rim triggers configured). This second point helps maintain a large number of playable pieces while keeping the MIDI mapping burden down. I do have the most important pieces fully mapped and configured (snare, hihat, ride, etc).
Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS Ventura (13)So for my kit as pictured, how many edrumins would I need? my total pad count including cymbals is 30. but I too don’t use rims on toms so they are all split. so it’s 2 toms per TRS. The cymbals are all using 2 zones so I can have choke/edge/bow. The ride is actually using a tom port for the bell b/c I was having issues with the 3 zone ride working properly on the strike so I sorta gave up on that and it works much better as a single zone. this might change with the edrumin which would free up that one port for one of the toms. So:
I’m removing the extra tom so there will be 6 of those. and probably selling the set of E-jam blocks. so I think 2 edrumin 8s should be enough:
6 toms divided by 2 zones per tom = 3 ports
8 octobans will need 4 ports
then that 8th port can handle the 2 zone snare
So then the 2nd edrumin 8 would handle 6 cymbals including the 3 zone ride and the kick + hi hat. So I guess I will be short one for the cowbell. Dang! Oh well, close enough. lol then I’m cutting costs + the 8 is going back in stock next month! (yay!) whereas the 10 won’t be back until March 2024. (boooo!)
- The post has been modified 1 year, 10 months ago by bpjacobsen"> 2 times, last modified 1 year, 10 months ago by bpjacobsen.
You’re going about this the right way. I did not read all of what you had there, but enough to see you have the right process. Map it out on paper first – helps figuring out what needs to be single zone vs dual.
I’ll say my kit evolves often as I add pieces, upgrade cymbals etc. I currently have 5 3-zone cymbals which take 1.5 or 2 TRS cables each (I say 1.5 because you can play some games with sharing the second connector that involve solder – see the eDrumIn forums for how to do that). So although I have 20 pieces, many of the connections are non-standard (TRS split between two pieces or 2-inputs for a 3-zone piece). Anyway, I have filled all 20 connections on the 2 eDrumIn modules I have and have invested in many splitters. You might be able to make 2 8-input modules support what you have. Probably the best place to start.
Mark KingAnother thing I do I write down all the note numbers for every component. I find it easier than using learn which on a dual zone cymbal can be difficult due to both zones triggering at times.
You can’t always go by what the module says is the out note as it may use a different middle C to your DAW or SD3. I record midi for each individual drum component and make a spread sheet of all the note numbers. It comes in very useful when you want to change something.
SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors
Andrew PayneHi There,
I am not sure exactly what you want from SD3 but it sems like you want to play your current (large) e-kit setup through SD3 and create a mapping that enables this. If this is the case I can give some hints based on what I do but the important thing is that I only play e-kit to trigger SD3 (and record in Cubase DAW) and do not use current MIDI grooves in SD3 for the kits I set up. The reason I say this is that I have created a specific MIDI map that I use based on my e-kit MIDI output (DTX900 in my case) and have created my own kit preset and physically changed all the MIDI notes for each instrument in my user kit in SD3 to match my e-kit MIDI output. I have created a MIDI map in my DAW that is the same. I then create my unique user kit preset in each SD3 library I use (and I have many – total of over 80 kits I have set up). This way regardless of the user kit I use, the triggers are all the same in Sd3 and always the same mapping in Cubase. Takes a while to set it up but once done you don’t have to change anything – except if you use a new SDX library then you make your own user kit as a preset and use same mapping logic. If this sounds like what you are trying to do then let me know and I can share more detail and screenshots if that helps. If you search on posts from me, some of the detail is already on the forum. cheers, Andrew
Dell Precision 7730, i7 6 Core 2.6 GHz, 128GB RAM, 1TB SSD and 3 x 2TB SSD, Windows 11, Cubase Pro 14, SD3 plus a variety of SDX's and EZX's, Orchestral Percussion, EZBASS, RME BabyFace Pro FS and KRK V4 monitors. Modified Yamaha DTX900, DTXPRESS4 and Edrumin10 triggering SD3. Yamaha pads/cymbals and Roland VH-10 HiHat. PDP Maple acoustic kit for live playing.
bpjacobsenHi There,
I am not sure exactly what you want from SD3 but it sems like you want to play your current (large) e-kit setup through SD3 and create a mapping that enables this. If this is the case I can give some hints based on what I do but the important thing is that I only play e-kit to trigger SD3 (and record in Cubase DAW) and do not use current MIDI grooves in SD3 for the kits I set up. The reason I say this is that I have created a specific MIDI map that I use based on my e-kit MIDI output (DTX900 in my case) and have created my own kit preset and physically changed all the MIDI notes for each instrument in my user kit in SD3 to match my e-kit MIDI output. I have created a MIDI map in my DAW that is the same. I then create my unique user kit preset in each SD3 library I use (and I have many – total of over 80 kits I have set up). This way regardless of the user kit I use, the triggers are all the same in Sd3 and always the same mapping in Cubase. Takes a while to set it up but once done you don’t have to change anything – except if you use a new SDX library then you make your own user kit as a preset and use same mapping logic. If this sounds like what you are trying to do then let me know and I can share more detail and screenshots if that helps. If you search on posts from me, some of the detail is already on the forum. cheers, Andrew
Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6
Operating system: Windows 10
Sorta yes. Except I don’t really want to use a daw. Main interest is to play my e kit to trigger the SD3 sounds. I still continue to struggle with getting certain things to work right. This includes:
1. Cowbell
2. Ride bell since mine is connected separately to a tom zone.
3. Turning off or reducing ambience. I feel like the stock presets have too much of lt.
I just would rather not have to use a daw at least for now since I don’t intend to record and was told it can add latency. But I do have Reaper in case I need it. Don’t have budget for Cubase. Also I am planning to get 2 edrumin 8 trigger boxes and selling the Alesis modules as it seems they will have better triggering and good computer trigger setting software. So I probably won’t do a whole lot of setting up yet. Just trying to grasp the whole concept but will basically have to start over when I get the Edrumin boxes. If you think you can help, I’m all for it. Def a large learning curve for me me. Lol. Just trying to be patient. Still got a long ways to go. I’m wondering if part of my problem is fully grasping the whole Midi mapping thing especially bc of how I have all toms split and some are being used for different types of pads like Cowbell and that sep ride bell? Like I don’t understand why if I add an instrument on the left side It doesn’t allow me to right click on it and select midi mapping? Its grayed out. Or why i still get tom sound when hitting the ride bell even though it shows that pad being mapped to ride? How else am I supposed to map things like the cowbell and the ride?
I wish I could do like a remote session. And just have, like, a crash course, LOL. Thanks for your willingness to try to set me straight here. I will learn this eventually. 51 year old brain is a little slower than it used to be. Lol
Andrew PayneOK – DAW not really an issue. Only thing is when and if you do, the way to get low latency is to use a good Audio interface. RME are expensive but fantastic. Suggest also that you put in your profile signature some basic details on your setup so anyone can understand better how to advise. Windows or MAC, Audio interface or not, basic computer specs (processor, RAM etc) as all of these can impact on what you can achieve. Also worth mentioning what libraries you have. My setup details below
1) I change the MIDI note in the main drums tab to match my DTX900 (or additional DTXpress4) modules. eg I change cowbell to be C#-2 to match the pad in my drum module and extra tom to be C2. see screenshot “SD3 1” and “SD3 7” and also “SD3 cowbell” which shows how I change “Hit” to be C#-2. Also I have increased the tuning of this tom C2 (and altered envelope/offset to make it sound real) as it is the first in my set of 6 toms.
2) my whole mapping is shown in “SD3 6”. Some of these are standard SD3 MIDI notes but most are altered to match my module(s). I did have to remap in my second module and then used these in SD3. I use this mapping for ALL user kits I have set up. I have circled mapping of reach of the 6 toms I use and also the cowbell – and also shown the 62 total triggers I use. I have also shown on “SD3 8” my setup for Rooms Of Hansa as this has very few instruments so I have to add lots of user instruments to get my total of 62 triggers. Key thing is that every one of my 80 odd user kits has exactly the same mapping regardless of SD3 or SDX library so I just change kits and don’t have to worry about mapping. I have found that changing mapping in “MIDI-In/E-Drums” is not as reliable. Compromise is I know I cannot use MIDI grooves from SD3 as they will not map correctly but as I stated earlier I do not use SD3 for this and use it solely for playing a “live” e-kit that triggers SD3 sounds.
3) In “Settings” and “MIDI In/E-Drums” I have my own preset that I use for all kits (SD3 2 AP) and you can see this on “SD3 2”. The green values are the non-standard mapped MIDI notes that I have changed.
4) I have to set up lots of user instruments and I also set up a channel for each of these to give me more flexibility in mixing. See “SD3 3” and you can see I have 36 User Mics, 16 buses and 16 Outputs. Note that this is CPU intensive so I record in 16-Bit mode to reduce CPU load. I have a fairly powerful Dell Precision with 64Gb RAM to achieve this and also low latency (along with RME Babyface Pro audio interface). I then use 24-bit for any audio mixdown in my DAW to get the better audio quality.
5) I group my channels and route to 16 buses – see “SD3 4” and these route to 16 outputs – see “SD3 5”. Again I set up each kit the same and each output routes to the same output in my DAW – Out 1/2 and 15 individual outputs that match my inputs in my DAW – see “SD3 10”. I use effects on these buses and also parallel Reverb and parallel Compression and each of my 80 user kits has same setup (but different effects/EQ etc to suit). These DAW inputs then route to 15 group tracks which I can then run as multiple output audio channels or “stems” or a single stereo output channel in my audio mixdown- see “SD3 9”. I always record in MIDI on my DAW as it gives a huge amount of flexibility and I can change to any one of my 80 user kits easily as they are all mapped the same.
6) In “SD3 11” I have shown a copy of my DAW (Cubase) drum map that I use and again each kit uses same mapping so I also have a single standard Cubase template for all my drum recording. Again it is very simple to change kits after recording in MIDI.
6) To answer your questions above you just map cowbell and ride bell to whatever MIDI outputs you have from your Alessis module(s) and same if you move to an edrumin trigger box. Not a lot of module set up and most chanf=ges are in Sd3 but I am not familiar with Alessis so not sure if you need edrumin trigger boxes or not. The main things to get your module set up are sensitivity, velocity curves and eliminating crosstalk but you can also do a lot of this in Sd3. Check out Luke Oswald videos as these go through most of this detail. Link to his first video in “Drum Angle Official” is LIVE STREAM: Superior Drummer 3 w/ E-Drums – Session 1 – YouTube
7) I have highlighted in yellow on “SD3 1” the macro controls that I use. For altering ambience, I “bind” all ambience channels to the “AMB All” macro so I just adjust this up or down to alter ttal ambience. I also do same for OH and some of the Buses.
This is a lot of detail so check out all 4 of Luke Oswalds videos and also the SD3 manual. Let me know if you have any questions.
I am no expert and I am sure there are lots of flaws in what I do and maybe better ways to do it but it works well for me and for what I want to do. cheers, Andrew
Dell Precision 7730, i7 6 Core 2.6 GHz, 128GB RAM, 1TB SSD and 3 x 2TB SSD, Windows 11, Cubase Pro 14, SD3 plus a variety of SDX's and EZX's, Orchestral Percussion, EZBASS, RME BabyFace Pro FS and KRK V4 monitors. Modified Yamaha DTX900, DTXPRESS4 and Edrumin10 triggering SD3. Yamaha pads/cymbals and Roland VH-10 HiHat. PDP Maple acoustic kit for live playing.
Andrew PayneFurther screenshots.
Dell Precision 7730, i7 6 Core 2.6 GHz, 128GB RAM, 1TB SSD and 3 x 2TB SSD, Windows 11, Cubase Pro 14, SD3 plus a variety of SDX's and EZX's, Orchestral Percussion, EZBASS, RME BabyFace Pro FS and KRK V4 monitors. Modified Yamaha DTX900, DTXPRESS4 and Edrumin10 triggering SD3. Yamaha pads/cymbals and Roland VH-10 HiHat. PDP Maple acoustic kit for live playing.
Andrew PayneAnd more
Dell Precision 7730, i7 6 Core 2.6 GHz, 128GB RAM, 1TB SSD and 3 x 2TB SSD, Windows 11, Cubase Pro 14, SD3 plus a variety of SDX's and EZX's, Orchestral Percussion, EZBASS, RME BabyFace Pro FS and KRK V4 monitors. Modified Yamaha DTX900, DTXPRESS4 and Edrumin10 triggering SD3. Yamaha pads/cymbals and Roland VH-10 HiHat. PDP Maple acoustic kit for live playing.
bpjacobsenWow! that is quite the process and detailed explanation, very much appreciated. So with this approach, you are saying, the midi grooves won’t work right? Like if I wanted to play along? What do I do differently from all this if I do want to use the midi grooves? I was also wondering, is it possible to change the midi notes in the module to match what is in SD3 instead so that the grooves can be used if desired? Just a thought.
I was also thinking, Do I need to actually create new instruments to properly setup triggering of toms that are using the rim zone from another tom? Or does it work just like any other midi mapping and I just match up what is in the module, in SD3? Anything special I need to consider about the whole dual zone splitting among toms? or just treat it like any other midi mapping? I guess I’m probably overcomplicating things with that question. lol
My assumption is that if you are using two modules, you have to make sure every instrument is using a different midi note correct? So I would have to go into one of the two modules and change the notes to something unique so that every pad has a unique midi note when sent to SD3 correct? How do I get that info? Hopefully come September, I will snag 2 Edrumin 8 modules. So I assume their software has the midi note info and I would have to change them to something different from the other box so the two collectively have all unique notes per zone/pad? Then match them up with the midi notes in SD3? And once I do all that one time and get them matched up, I can switch kits and they will always be the same? (guessing that is why you changed them in the main drums page so loading any presets from the libraries would use the same notes?)
Excellent point on the gear so here is what I got:
UA Volt 4 USB Audio Interface
currently running a windows 10 pc with and I7 processor with 16gb ram and SSD drives but will be getting a mini pc that will have Windows 11, 32 gb ram and a 1 or 2 TB ssd drive 4.x gh ryzen 7 or i7 8 core processor. so should be no problems with anything I do pretty much.
Currently running two Alesis Strike module though only 1 of them now b/c I’m just trying to learn the basics of setup and holding off on much setup until I have the edrumin modules.
Obviously SD3 but so far no added libraries. that will be down the road. (gotta make sure this is all going to float my boat before blowing more money on this and that I learn the basics and get my kits sounding the way I want. lol)
Also I decided to scale down my kit a tiny bit by removing the extra rack tom, 1 floor tom and the jam blocks b/c I really just don’t need them. So the current layout is:
acoustic to e converted kit is 4 rack toms + 1 floor tom, cowbell, 2 crash, ride, splash, and china, hihat, snare, kick then the 8 octobans I built from PVC.
Goedrum dual zone triggers for all cymbals (3 zone for ride but not using the bell on that due to iffy triggering issues so I have the bell separated and using a piezo connected to a spare tom port as mentioned previously)
Hope I covered all I needed to.
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