BrodieSkiddlzI’m having a little trouble, maybe its my ADD not letting focus but I’m getting turned around so much I’m dizzy.
So when you compile a drum set for the first time, do you check phase for the samples? I imagine most of you do. How do you do it?
The approach I was taking was to start with my overhead track solo’d, and then bring in my kick sample and try inverting phase in and out to see which sounds fuller. Then I’d mute the kick and bring in the snare and do the same. I’d keep doing this for all my samples until finished. I did it that way on Steven Slate Drums and EZDrummer with no problem.
I actually have two OVH’s on SD3, a condenser and a dynamic. That makes it a little confusing to me, since both of those tracks are stereo tracks. Do they need to BOTH be solo’d, and then you bring your kick in and check against BOTH OVH’s? I find it a bit hard to hear the difference with both mics live. So I tried to solo only one OVH and run the process. But when I mute that OVH and bring in my other, I find that now some of my samples are out of phase with this second OVH. I could invert phase on them, but then they’re out of phase with my first OVH. How is that possible?
I’d choose the easy way out and just disregard one of the OVH’s and rely fully on just one of them, but then I run into bleed problems. One of my OVH’s has the option for bleed from the kick, snare, ride, and a couple crashes. The other has bleed options for my toms and hi hat. So id I use only one OVH, I lose bleed from certain elements of the kit.
And speaking of bleed, each bleed route has an invert phase option next to it. There’s also a phase button on the mixing channel itself. How do I check phase against three sources? If my kick is in phase with my dynamic OVH, its out of phase with my condenser OVH. If my snare is in phase with both OVH’s, its out of phase with the bleed.
It seems impossible for me to adjust phase correctly in this program. That was the point I figured I must be doing something wrong. So surely someone can guide me in the right direction here. I looked up the manual, but it seems to explain what phase is, and how to invert it. But it doesn’t really specify an order of adjustment. In other words, what do I use as my baseline?
When I tracked live drums, I would get my two OVH mics in phase with each other. Then I’d use those as my baseline. I’d check every other mic against those two. It seems impossible to do that here. Surely its not. I knew there’d be learning curve when I saw just how many options you have in SD3, with the surround mics and multiple ambience mics (most of which I don’t even want to try to use yet), but I’m getting dizzy over this. Not to mention if I do manage to find a sample that’s in phase with both OVH’s, if I decide to add another sample to compliment it, its out of phase with one of those three things.
Surely I’m dumb here. Can anyone offer insight?
PS, I’ve also included a short recording of my toms in my OVH’s. SURELY they shouldn’t sound this bad? The clip switches between all mics live, and OHV’s solo’d. They sound like empty paint cans. This isn’t normal right?
Bear-Faced CowYou might be overcomplicating this. To start, yes you have two overheads. One of them is recorded through a pair of condenser mics and the other record through a pair of dynamic mics. Switching any of the bleeds out of phase won’t do a null cancellation because of the different microphones. If you are using the default Gretsch kit (you didn’t specify nor include a project so it is hard to tell), you will notice that OH Dyn has three close mic’d channels, which is why they are not showing up in the bleed panel (there is another panel underneath). So, in the case you have all of your OH channels. So, yes, you can use one OH (and no, it’s not the easy way – it’s about getting something to sound good in a mix), or if you want to use two, you can mix and match what kit pieces go through each. And of course there’s nothing stopping you from using both OH’s but ask yourself if you are adding or taking away from the mix or if you really need to.
jord
BrodieSkiddlzSo inverting phase on the OVH bleed mics shouldn’t give me phase cancellation one way or the other?
The kit I’ve made is an amalgam of several kits. I didn’t really like any of the default kits. I’m using some Pearl kicks, Tama and Gretsch snares and Ludwig toms.
Basically what I want to do is control SD3 the same way I’d control live drum takes. Or as close to as I can get. I’m just trying to get everything in phase. I usually get my OVH’s sounding great and then add in my close mics. Obviously, these aren’t live drum takes so there will be some tradeoffs, but I’m just trying to get as close as I can.
So my OVH channels (on the channel strips) have phase inversion buttons. That’s the button I should be using to get my OVH’s in phase with each other? Once they’re in phase with each other, I just bring in my samples and check phase against my OVH’s one at a time? That’s how I would assume it would work, but the OVH’s having bleed phase buttons confuses me. If reversing phase on the bleed tracks doesn’t do anything, why would they add them in?
Bear-Faced CowSo inverting phase on the OVH bleed mics shouldn’t give me phase cancellation one way or the other?
I didn’t say that. I said they’re not going to cancel out completely. Dynamic and Condenser microphones have different frequency response curves.
The kit I’ve made is an amalgam of several kits. I didn’t really like any of the default kits. I’m using some Pearl kicks, Tama and Gretsch snares and Ludwig toms.
Not too different from any of my presets and projects. Dynamic OH’s still have the close mic.
Basically what I want to do is control SD3 the same way I’d control live drum takes. Or as close to as I can get. I’m just trying to get everything in phase. I usually get my OVH’s sounding great and then add in my close mics. Obviously, these aren’t live drum takes so there will be some tradeoffs, but I’m just trying to get as close as I can.
You’re right, they aren’t live. They are already recorded. They should really be treated more as a mix or sound design scenario rather than a recording scenario since the extent of your control is an already recorded signal (George Massenburg already did that part of the work for you). It is probably best to adopt a mixing attitude ask yourself what you are looking for from each set of OH channels, if you need more than one set of OH. I’m not saying that you need only set, but you might like the sound of the snare in the condenser and the toms in the dynamic (or vice versa). You can take what you want from each in order to get a good mix. Carve out the sound you need or create new sonic tonalities.
So my OVH channels (on the channel strips) have phase inversion buttons. That’s the button I should be using to get my OVH’s in phase with each other? Once they’re in phase with each other, I just bring in my samples and check phase against my OVH’s one at a time? That’s how I would assume it would work, but the OVH’s having bleed phase buttons confuses me. If reversing phase on the bleed tracks doesn’t do anything, why would they add them in?
They are doing something. You have to listen more carefully since they will affect a single kit piece in relation to others in that channel, as well as other channels. Again, I think you are way overcomplicating a process that really doesn’t need to be.
I’d also recommend that if you are indeed using 3.1.2, update to 3.1.7
jord
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