Help with TD-17KVX and SD3!

[machine_74]

I purchased a TD-17KVX about two years ago and have...

I purchased a TD-17KVX about two years ago and have been playing with the stock kits, and found most of them lacking. I pretty much default to Acoustic just to get my fix in.

Then I downloaded a Zeppelin pack and saved it as a preset, and it’s “okay” but I want more, aka Metallica, AC/DC etc.  Then I found Superior Drummer.

I waited for a sale and picked the software up a couple months ago, installed the whole thing and worked though the connectivity issues to ultimately download a preset someone made of Van Halen specifically for SD3.

Despite my best efforts, I get terrible delays when playing and I can’t reduce it no matter what I try.

• Roland TD 17KVX with Midi Local Control set to off, USB set to Vendor
• Windows 11 laptop hooked up via USB cable to Roland. Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8550U CPU @ 1.80GHz, 16 GB RAM
• SD3 with Roland TD-17 kit preset loaded
• Headphones connected to Roland module. I read some previous posts that suggested plugging the headphones into the laptop, and changing the audio out in SD3. I do get audio from SD3 but only if the USB cable is not hooked up to the kit.

I’ve been told to try a new high speed USB cable, try the ASIO4ALL plugin, get an amp….and that my laptop should be plenty. I still get 5.6ms of latency and it sounds terrible

I’m left with a kit with not-so-great built ins, and a non-optimized $300 program.

I’d very much appreciate any help anyone can provide; I feel like I need a drum tech to come over and fix my setup, but I’ll keep plugging away.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: Windows 11

I purchased a TD-17KVX about two years ago and have been playing with the stock kits, and found most of them lacking. I pretty much default to Acoustic just to get my fix in.

Then I downloaded a Zeppelin pack and saved it as a preset, and it’s “okay” but I want more, aka Metallica, AC/DC etc.  Then I found Superior Drummer.

I waited for a sale and picked the software up a couple months ago, installed the whole thing and worked though the connectivity issues to ultimately download a preset someone made of Van Halen specifically for SD3.

Despite my best efforts, I get terrible delays when playing and I can’t reduce it no matter what I try.

• Roland TD 17KVX with Midi Local Control set to off, USB set to Vendor
• Windows 11 laptop hooked up via USB cable to Roland. Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8550U CPU @ 1.80GHz, 16 GB RAM
• SD3 with Roland TD-17 kit preset loaded
• Headphones connected to Roland module. I read some previous posts that suggested plugging the headphones into the laptop, and changing the audio out in SD3. I do get audio from SD3 but only if the USB cable is not hooked up to the kit.

I’ve been told to try a new high speed USB cable, try the ASIO4ALL plugin, get an amp….and that my laptop should be plenty. I still get 5.6ms of latency and it sounds terrible

I’m left with a kit with not-so-great built ins, and a non-optimized $300 program.

I’d very much appreciate any help anyone can provide; I feel like I need a drum tech to come over and fix my setup, but I’ll keep plugging away.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: Windows 11

Topic

[drumjack52]

machine_74 wrote:

I’m familiar with the midi cable and I don’t have one going to the laptop, just the USB cable. I’m not 100% certain it’s a “high speed” USB cable.

Lose that cable; all you need is the MIDI cable going from the drum brain to your computer to trigger the kit pieces in SD3. Since you’re not sending any audio from the Roland to your computer you don’t need that USB cable.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

machine_74 wrote:

I gotta say, with a $1500 kit and a $300 software program, another physocal add-on never came up when purchasing any of it. I know that’s how they “get you”, but I feel like this should work without the additional module. Who knows.

There’s not ‘got you’ in all of this. It’s all a simple matter of what’s been said multiple times in this thread – if you want good performance then you NEED a separate audio interface. Things are only as good as the weakest link and that’s the audio of your computer. You don’t need a $1000 interface.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[Ryanrrr]

lol I only said the RME babyface because its the one i had (and is known to be a best on latency speeds) so recommended it, but should have been clearer

certainly dont need an expensive one

[drumjack52]

Ryanrrr wrote:

lol I only said the RME babyface because its the one i had (and is known to be a best on latency speeds) so recommended it, but should have been clearer

certainly dont need an expensive one

Exactly. And it’s not necessary to buy a new interface either. Unlike something you actually play on like guitar or keyboard unless an interface has been abused a used piece will suffice. Ebay or Reverb are good places to check.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[machine_74]

I don’t have a Midi port on my laptop, unless they carry a 5 pin to USB cable.

Also–I realize the idea of the separate audio interface has been brought up multiple times, but that’s the purpose of a discussion. Some have claimed they can get SD3 to work with their kits without one and I’m gathering intel. Thanks.

[drumjack52]

machine_74 wrote:

I don’t have a Midi port on my laptop, unless they carry a 5 pin to USB cable.

Also–I realize the idea of the separate audio interface has been brought up multiple times, but that’s the purpose of a discussion. Some have claimed they can get SD3 to work with their kits without one and I’m gathering intel. Thanks.

Your drum brain probably has that 5 pin MIDI to USB cable already somewheres in the box it came in. I’m no fan of using a single connector to send MIDI and audio over the same USB connection. One stream with mixed signal types – recipe for disaster. There’s no realistic way to get SD3 working with an e-kit without using a separate audio interface. Depending on using a built-in audio interface will only get you poor sound and performance results. You spent huge on an e-kit and software so don’t cheap out on the audio end.

Also many audio interfaces also have a MIDI connector/interface built in.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[machine_74]

Just downloaded ASIO4ALL and the latency is much less. The sounds aren’t perfect, a little feedback on some–so I’m going to jump to Guitar Center and grab a Scarlett interface. Worst case, if it doesn’t improve things, I take it back. They have both a 2i2 and Solo in stock, and guessing the former is overkill for what I want (just drums).

[Mark King]

Have you changed the usb to vendor mode on the module? You need to do this so that you get audio as well as midi over usb. When you do this windows should automatically install the asio driver. You should then select asio in sd3 and then the Roland driver. The picture shows you selecting wasapi which will never give you low latency. By the way you can check that the Roland driver is installed by looking in the control panel where it has an app.

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

[machine_74]

Update: I watched the video below, and went to Guitar Center to purchase an audio interface.

I went with this one plus a 5-pin Midi cable

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Focusrite/Scarlett-Solo-USB-C-Audio-Interface-Gen-4-1500000401654.gc

When I went to hook up the Midi cable to my kit, I discovered that the Scarlett had only an XLR (mic) input, not a 5 pin Midi. Thanks, Guitar Center.

Just drove back there to get an adapter and another peron said it wasn’t possible to do what I want to do, and that I shouldn’t need to with my laptop handing it. He said it would take another device for more than $300, so I looked through all the Scarletts they had there and they all have XLR, not 5 pin Midi connections.

The Scarlett hooked up to my PC and was powered just fine, just can’t connect to my drum set.

If someone were to tell me it has to go Roland to the laptop vua USB, and then the Scarlett to my PC via a double sided USB-C, and NO connection from the Scarlett to my kit, I might be able to do that. Other than that this won’t work.

I’m going to try installing SD3 on a different laptop and checking for latency without the audio interface. Maybe much more expensive AI’s have the midi connection like the one in the YouTube video, but I’m surprised the Scarletts at this level don’t.

 

 

 

[drumjack52]

To the OP: Your first mistake was going to Guitar Center. The salesdroids have zero knowledge of most anything whatever they sell especially audio. Did you ask for an interface that has MIDI I/O? If not you should have. And then checked it out in the store before pulling out the cash/plastic. Don’t trust anything one of their salesdroids say.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[Mark King]

The td17 will do midi over USB. You don’t need a midi interface?

td17 usb to laptop, Scarlett usb to laptop.

sd3 choose td17 for midi interface.

sd3 choose Scarlett asio for audio.

It’s that simple. You then listen to the output of the Scarlett via headphones or plugged into speakers.

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

• The post has been modified 2 times, last modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Mark King.

2

Thanked by: Korken and drumjack52

[Korken]

^^^
this

[machine_74]

Thanks, I had a rough weekend after I went back to GC and got very sick, so I put all this aside for a few days while I recover. Just a bad weekend all around, but moving on.

I’m going to download SD3 to a newer laptop I have at home and run it without the interface to see if it runs better. If it does, it’s my current laptop that can’t keep up.

Then I’m going to do what Mark suggested above; the only issue is that my laptops only have one USB-2.0 Type port. If one is from the Roland, I’ll have to find a USB-C to USB-C to connect the interface to the laptop.

[BigButtons]

Machine_74

I just had a similar issue to yours but on the Roland V71. I was able to solve it:

First of all your drum module does support USB Audio and you SHOULD be able to use it as the audio output device without getting the delays you mentioned. Also, your TD17 SHOULD be listed as a ASIO device type.

Using WASAPI gave me the same results you have, but initially I did not see the V71 as an ASIO device. Here’s How I solved it.

1. Disconnect ALL USB cables from your laptop.
2. Uninstall the Roland driver and reboot.
3. Download the Roland driver for your OS from the Roland site and install. (https://www.roland.com/us/support/by_product/td-17/updates_drivers/)
4. DO NOT CONNECT ANY USB CABLES YET.
5. In your TD17 in the USB Audio section make sure the USB Driver Mode is set to VENDOR (This is IMPORTANT).
6. After you change the USB Driver Mode to VENDOR shut off your TD17 and power it back on.
7. Now connect the TD17 to your laptop via USB.
8. Open Superior Drummer 3
9. In SD3 you should now see the TD17 as a ASIO audio device (select it).
10. In your TD17 with Local control set to off, try triggering sounds from SD3

Hopefully you’ll notice the delay is gone.

Not sure if this will work for you, but this was my issue, and I did notice in your screen shots that your USB Driver Mode was set to GENERIC and your Audio Device Type was set to WASAPI.

Give it a try. I hope this Helps.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: Windows 11

Superior Drummer 3 (3.3.7)
Windows 11 Pro
MSI Stealth GS77 (Intel Core i9-12900H, 32 GB RAM, 1TB & 4 TB SSD)
Roland VAD716 (V71 module)
MIDAS MR-18 Digital Mixer

[machine_74]

Just an update, as I did get it working on both my work laptop and my older personal laptop once I obtained a USB-C to USB-C cable and downloaded the driver for the FocusRite box.

In both cases I was able to hear the sounds generated from the kit with much less delay, almost nil, using the FocusRite Solo.

What I found surprising is that with my work laptop (newer model) I didn’t have to play with the buffer size that much when I loaded a custom VH kit I purchased. On my personal machine, there’s cracking and pops all over the place no matter how large the buffer.

I was under the impression that by using the FocusRite it would alleviate any of the potential processor power issues my laptop might be having. Is that not the case?

Be that as it may, it looks like my best bet here on out is to create a custom kit on the TD-17 itself and not even use the FocusRite, and if I want to use SD3 for custom kits I purchase, I’ll have to run it off a better laptop.

[Author]

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