Help with TD-17KVX and SD3!

[machine_74]

I purchased a TD-17KVX about two years ago and have...

I purchased a TD-17KVX about two years ago and have been playing with the stock kits, and found most of them lacking. I pretty much default to Acoustic just to get my fix in.

Then I downloaded a Zeppelin pack and saved it as a preset, and it’s “okay” but I want more, aka Metallica, AC/DC etc.  Then I found Superior Drummer.

I waited for a sale and picked the software up a couple months ago, installed the whole thing and worked though the connectivity issues to ultimately download a preset someone made of Van Halen specifically for SD3.

Despite my best efforts, I get terrible delays when playing and I can’t reduce it no matter what I try.

• Roland TD 17KVX with Midi Local Control set to off, USB set to Vendor
• Windows 11 laptop hooked up via USB cable to Roland. Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8550U CPU @ 1.80GHz, 16 GB RAM
• SD3 with Roland TD-17 kit preset loaded
• Headphones connected to Roland module. I read some previous posts that suggested plugging the headphones into the laptop, and changing the audio out in SD3. I do get audio from SD3 but only if the USB cable is not hooked up to the kit.

I’ve been told to try a new high speed USB cable, try the ASIO4ALL plugin, get an amp….and that my laptop should be plenty. I still get 5.6ms of latency and it sounds terrible

I’m left with a kit with not-so-great built ins, and a non-optimized $300 program.

I’d very much appreciate any help anyone can provide; I feel like I need a drum tech to come over and fix my setup, but I’ll keep plugging away.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: Windows 11

I purchased a TD-17KVX about two years ago and have been playing with the stock kits, and found most of them lacking. I pretty much default to Acoustic just to get my fix in.

Then I downloaded a Zeppelin pack and saved it as a preset, and it’s “okay” but I want more, aka Metallica, AC/DC etc.  Then I found Superior Drummer.

I waited for a sale and picked the software up a couple months ago, installed the whole thing and worked though the connectivity issues to ultimately download a preset someone made of Van Halen specifically for SD3.

Despite my best efforts, I get terrible delays when playing and I can’t reduce it no matter what I try.

• Roland TD 17KVX with Midi Local Control set to off, USB set to Vendor
• Windows 11 laptop hooked up via USB cable to Roland. Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8550U CPU @ 1.80GHz, 16 GB RAM
• SD3 with Roland TD-17 kit preset loaded
• Headphones connected to Roland module. I read some previous posts that suggested plugging the headphones into the laptop, and changing the audio out in SD3. I do get audio from SD3 but only if the USB cable is not hooked up to the kit.

I’ve been told to try a new high speed USB cable, try the ASIO4ALL plugin, get an amp….and that my laptop should be plenty. I still get 5.6ms of latency and it sounds terrible

I’m left with a kit with not-so-great built ins, and a non-optimized $300 program.

I’d very much appreciate any help anyone can provide; I feel like I need a drum tech to come over and fix my setup, but I’ll keep plugging away.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: Windows 11

Topic

[Ryanrrr]

This (sorry I tried quoting shooties response)

Reducing buffer size down is also done in sd3.

now that you have said that, I suspect this is the problem

• This post was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Ryanrrr.

[Ryanrrr]

Adjust the buffer size down to 32 or 64 or 128. Lower the better. This is done on the sd3 software as per shooties instructions

No need to adjust anything on the module.

Should fix it. We all assumed you did this, as this is step one to making it work without latency

[Mark King]

Then it’s reporting the latency wrong as you certainly don’t get an echo/flam sound with 5.6ms. Are you saying you are using the td17 as an audio interface? I know the Roland drivers are not great for audio latency. I tested my td30 but had to drop the buffers to the lowest setting to get it acceptable. With my RME interface I can have the buffers much larger and get very low latency.

Sorry missed the 2nd page messages. If using the module as an audio interface then you can open the app from the control panel. It just has a slider that goes down to 32. As above though. 32 is the only acceptable setting in my opinion. Above that and I can feel the latency.

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

• This post was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Mark King.

[machine_74]

Honestly, I may have done that tinkering around in the program, but I’ll verify tonight. If it doesn’t work I’ll mark that off the checklist. Sorry I’m new to this whole program.

[drumjack52]

machine_74 wrote:

When I say it sounds terrible, there’s some residual echoing and the sounds come out deleyed. When I strike the pads of cymbals there’s a noticable delay, and it’s unplayable with that kind of feedback.

Also Shootie–I’m using SD3, not EZD3.

I’m finding that when I look at the output settings it’s letting me choose a delay value and it won’t go below 5.6ms.

So all in all, suggestion is to tweak the buffer size in the software and module, so I’ll have to revisit how to do that.

I’m not using an audio module. I have my kit hooked up to my laptop via USB, standalone SD3 installed on my laptop.

The Roland latency settings have nothing to do with audio coming from the computer UNLESS you’re somehow feeding audio from your computer back to the drum brain. That echoing is probably a double hit but if you have local control off on the brain that shouldn’t happen.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

Mark King wrote:

Then it’s reporting the latency wrong as you certainly don’t get an echo/flam sound with 5.6ms. Are you saying you are using the td17 as an audio interface? I know the Roland drivers are not great for audio latency. I tested my td30 but had to drop the buffers to the lowest setting to get it acceptable. With my RME interface I can have the buffers much larger and get very low latency.

Sorry missed the 2nd page messages. If using the module as an audio interface then you can open the app from the control panel. It just has a slider that goes down to 32. As above though. 32 is the only acceptable setting in my opinion. Above that and I can feel the latency.

• This post was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Mark King.

Looking at the manual I don’t see how the brain acts as an audio interface for output from a connected computer. Maybe the TD30 is different in that regard.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[Ryanrrr]

No worries, i went through the same thing when first getting it haha

I replied to your fb post i saw earlier with a picture of what im taking about. It wouldnt let me post it here

You will see ive got the roland td-27 selected as a audio output device, and selected a buffer size of 64 = output latency of 1.7ms. Follow shooties instructions to get to that screen

• This post was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Ryanrrr.

[machine_74]

I’ll have a look at this tonight when I get home from work. If it doesn’t work with all these suggestions, I’ll document what I have set.

Thanks all for replying so quickly.

[Mark King]

drumjack52 wrote:

Mark King wrote:

Then it’s reporting the latency wrong as you certainly don’t get an echo/flam sound with 5.6ms. Are you saying you are using the td17 as an audio interface? I know the Roland drivers are not great for audio latency. I tested my td30 but had to drop the buffers to the lowest setting to get it acceptable. With my RME interface I can have the buffers much larger and get very low latency.

Sorry missed the 2nd page messages. If using the module as an audio interface then you can open the app from the control panel. It just has a slider that goes down to 32. As above though. 32 is the only acceptable setting in my opinion. Above that and I can feel the latency.

• This post was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Mark King.

Looking at the manual I don’t see how the brain acts as an audio interface for output from a connected computer. Maybe the TD30 is different in that regard.

Just checked the manual and it can send and receive audio over USB.

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

[drumjack52]

Mark King wrote:

drumjack52 wrote:

Mark King wrote:

Then it’s reporting the latency wrong as you certainly don’t get an echo/flam sound with 5.6ms. Are you saying you are using the td17 as an audio interface? I know the Roland drivers are not great for audio latency. I tested my td30 but had to drop the buffers to the lowest setting to get it acceptable. With my RME interface I can have the buffers much larger and get very low latency.

Sorry missed the 2nd page messages. If using the module as an audio interface then you can open the app from the control panel. It just has a slider that goes down to 32. As above though. 32 is the only acceptable setting in my opinion. Above that and I can feel the latency.

• This post was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Mark King.

Looking at the manual I don’t see how the brain acts as an audio interface for output from a connected computer. Maybe the TD30 is different in that regard.

Just checked the manual and it can send and receive audio over USB.

The wording is a bit ambiguous to me as to whether it can receive audio from the computer or not.

Something just hit me (pardon the pun) but with the 5 pin MIDI out and MIDI out from the USB port and wonder if that’s the source of flamming if both are connected to the computer?

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[machine_74]

I hooked it all back up again and got sound out of my laptop; the output in SD3 was set to the TD-17 but I changed it.

Sounds are coming through, but there’s still like a 1/4 second delay and it’s unplayable like this.

So I looked at the buffer size and it won’t go below 64, no matter which device type I choose.

Link to photos of the settings I have available to me:

 

 

[drumjack52]

You need a real audio interface because as I’ve been saying a built-in/onboard interface will never give you satisfactory performance. And use proper drivers with that new interface. Until you do that you’re just spinning your wheels. When you say ‘quarter second delay’ you’re talking about the time between when you hit a pad and sound comes out? Do you have both the 5 pin MIDI connection and the USB port connected at the same time to the computer? If so lose the USB connection and just use the 5 pin MIDI connection to the computer. That way you’ll only have one MIDI stream going on.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[machine_74]

I’m familiar with the midi cable and I don’t have one going to the laptop, just the USB cable. I’m not 100% certain it’s a “high speed” USB cable.

[Korken]

For sure you don’t need a so-called high speed USB cable for this application. Normal USB 2.0 and a decent cable should be enough. I am not an expert, but after reading all discussion and facts here I vote for a decent interface with proper ASIO drivers given by the manufacturer. And for sure you don’t need a US$ 1000 interface for this.

[machine_74]

I gotta say, with a $1500 kit and a $300 software program, another physocal add-on never came up when purchasing any of it. I know that’s how they “get you”, but I feel like this should work without the additional module. Who knows.

[Author]

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