metrosuperstarI don’t know if many here are frustrated by the fact that we can’t right-click an instrument graphic in the Drums view and have an option to “MIDI Learn” and then click a pad on our e-drums to assign it to that graphical instrument.
In my case, I added a tambourine in the Drums view. I want to assign it to my Roland bar (BT-1). If only I could highlight the tambourine, right-click MIDI Learn and hit my BT-1 and voila – SD3 would know to trigger the tambourine when I hit this pad.
Is this not possible yet? What is the workaround?
This would be super useful for many other situations because I am sitting here behind a Roland TD-20 and all extra 4 aux instruments I’ve plugged in are triggering the wrong instruments in SD3, despite the TD-20 preset being selected. Can’t we just sit and play?!! Do we really have to spend 15 minutes mapping and remapping every time we want to use an SD3 preset? This is so frustrating!
Hopefully I’m missing something, or an update to SD3 is coming to make it more “real drummer” friendly.
monospaceThis exists. Go to Settings -> MIDI in/E-Drums… and select an articulation. Click the “Learn” button. Hit a trigger, done.
E-drummer. eDrumIn trigger interface with various Roland trigger pads. MacBook Pro (mid-2015); MacOS High Sierra; Logic Pro X 10.4.8. Superior Drummer user since 2009.
2
Thanked by: cristobal romero and metrosuperstarmonospaceAnother trick I learned, albeit way too late (after 11 years of e-drumming): you can create User Kits on your module and assign different MIDI notes for a certain pad in each. So, if like me, you have one physical rack tom and two floor toms, you can assign your rack tom to SD Tom 1 in one user kit, and to SD Tom 2 or 3 in another. Everything else stays the same. Then all you need to do is select your User Kit on your module to play whichever tom you want. Quick and easy. (And of course this is by no means limited to toms.)
E-drummer. eDrumIn trigger interface with various Roland trigger pads. MacBook Pro (mid-2015); MacOS High Sierra; Logic Pro X 10.4.8. Superior Drummer user since 2009.
1
Thanked by: cristobal romerometrosuperstarHi monospace
I guess I should have titled my thread “MIDI Learn WITHIN the main Drums tab” (instead of inside the edrum setup.)
To me it would make sense to have it on the same view as where we are assembling the kit, adding pieces, swapping pieces etc… I could just add the tambourine, right click, select MIDI Learn (which doesnt exist in this view), hit my pad and be done without leaving the drumkit view.
As for what you are saying (and thank you for replying!), it sounds like there are 2 approaches possible. Create different presets inside SD3 or create different presets inside my module. Is this correct?
Maybe if I tell you what my use is, you can advise me on which is the better path. I want to play cover songs, and even if I use different kits from different expansion packs, I will probably always want my china cymbal to be the right-most cymbal on the GUI inside SD3, no matter which kit is selected in SD3. However, I’m open to having my Roland bar BT1 be a tambourine in one song, maybe a shaker in another. Maybe I could create a preset depending on which artist’s songs I’m playing? Like a Def Leppard kit, a Duran Duran kit, etc…? If I do a kit specific to a song, I’ll likely end up with too many presets but creating them and naming them per artist might work. Thoughts on all this?
monospaceI don’t disagree that having a Learn button on the Drums tab would be useful. Superior Drummer 2 had that, and I used it quite a bit. There is a “Learn” functionality hidden in the MIDI Mapping sidebox though. But you first have to select an articulation, then use the pulldown menu next to that articulation in the Mapping box, then select “Learn note…” The difference is that it only applies to your currently loaded configuration, not global like the MIDI In/E-Drum settings.
In your situation, what I would do is not load each additional instrument as a “new instrument” that then needs to be assigned or “learned”, but rather I would right-click an already loaded part that has a MIDI note already assigned, then “Search for instrument” and replace the existing instrument. That way you don’t need to relearn MIDI notes. You can then save those new configurations as User Kits. If you only swap out a few elements and not an entire kit, this will load quite quickly.
I don’t play covers all that much, but I do set up different User Kits for different playing styles, i.e. a more jazzy kit and a more heavy kit. I might have a cowbell on the BT-1 in one, and a splash in the other. Or a different ride for each kit, or racktom, etc. But they’re not geared to specific songs, just to different genres.
E-drummer. eDrumIn trigger interface with various Roland trigger pads. MacBook Pro (mid-2015); MacOS High Sierra; Logic Pro X 10.4.8. Superior Drummer user since 2009.
metrosuperstarOh wow, you’re right there kinda is a way of doing it in the DRUMS view, albeit not super straightforward. Thanks for showing me that!
However, you say it would not be global like if I apply the change in the EDrums settings. But how global can it be? I mean, if I change to a kit that’s in a different expansion pack, will hitting my Roland china still trigger the right-most cymbal on screen?
And related to this, what does it mean when I click (or physically play) a wireframed kit piece, see an orange speaker icon appear and the kit move BUT a different kit piece lights up? When I look at the mapping keys panel on the right while doing so, I can see that one articulation is flashing gray and a blue one has the orange icon appearing here as well. What does it mean?
Moving on to your suggested workflow…you say you would right-click an already loaded part that has a MIDI note already assigned. Do you mean pick a drum kit preset where the piece is not wireframed? Is that what the wireframed pieces mean? That they don’t have MIDI notes assigned? If so, how come we are hearing a sound? Every wireframed kit piece I click emits a sound, and sometimes makes another piece move (like a cymbal).
You then mention saving new configurations as User Kits. Are you talking user kits in SD3 or the module? Sounds like you’re saying you save inside SD3 a user kit tweaked the way you like for each genre you play. How did you assign a cowbell to your BT-1? First of all, I can’t find the cowbell under future instruments (which is where I thought I would find any aux percs). Which graphical kit piece do you assign it to?
Sorry for all the questions – your answers are super helpful and I think I’m starting to understand better. Bare with me just a bit more!
monospaceIf you re-assign the MIDI mapping on the Drums tab, you’re only applying that new mapping to the currently loaded kit. You can save that kit as a User Kit (in SD3 that means the collection of drum parts, mappings, and mixer settings currently active), but you’re going to have to do the same thing all over again when you load a different kit.
If you do it in the MIDI In/E-Drum Settings it’s “global” because you’re changing the way your MIDI input translates to an instrument at the input level. The trick is to be aware that SD3 uses a standard MIDI map (based on the more generic General MIDI drum map) in which each articulation uses a fixed MIDI note number. (Most expansion packs use that same mapping, but especially some of the older SD2 expansions can be slightly different.)
Now, if you know, for example, that Tom 1 in SD3 always uses MIDI note 48, and Tom 2 is 47, and Tom 3 is 45, and you only have one rack tom (like I do), a clever way to quickly change the sound you’re triggering is to not change the MIDI mapping inside of SD3, or go through the trouble of “re-learning” that sound, but to do it on your trigger module! So, on your module, you would create a couple of User Kits/Presets in which your racktom trigger pad plays MIDI note 48 in one, 47 in the other, and so forth. Name them something useful like “Rack 1, “Rack 2”, etc and you can change what sounds you trigger in SD3 by simply changing the preset on your module. (All modules will allow you to change the MIDI assignment for a trigger, consult your manual to see how to do it on yours.)
Be aware that many expansion packs have different drum layouts than the default SD3 kits, so it makes sense to create User Kits on your module that match those expansion packs, and name them accordingly. Changing the User Kits on your module is much quicker than “relearning” mappings every time you load an expansion pack.
A wireframe in SD3 simply means that no instrument is currently loaded in that instrument slot (which is a MIDI mapping!) SD3 is smart enough that when you hit a trigger that would normally be assigned to that note number, it will play the next adjacent, loaded sound. So if Tom 1 isn’t loaded and you hit a trigger pad assigned to that MIDI note, it will play the next tom that is loaded (and display the orange icon on the wireframe). Same with floor toms, cymbals, etc.
Lastly, my cowbell setup is a bit different. I use the cowbell that came with the “Avatar” default drumkit from Superior Drummer 2. (As far as I can tell, Future Hit instruments aren’t playable from an e-drum kit, they’re meant for MIDI programming. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.) So I click “Add Instrument->Search For Instrument…” and load the cowbell. It shows up inside a small rectangle at the top left. The MIDI Mapping box on the right shows that the note number for the cowbell is 95, so that’s what I change the BT-1 to in my trigger module. I then save that as a preset on my module and as a User Kit in SD3.
E-drummer. eDrumIn trigger interface with various Roland trigger pads. MacBook Pro (mid-2015); MacOS High Sierra; Logic Pro X 10.4.8. Superior Drummer user since 2009.
2
Thanked by: metrosuperstar and gearnerdmetrosuperstarWow, thank you so much for your detailed explanation! Before I got to this I backtracked from SD3 just to see if I could understand better my Roland module. I hit every trigger and made note of its default MIDI note number. Unlike you though, my Tom 1 = 48, Tom 2 = 45, Tom 3 = 43, and Tom 4 = 41.
What I discovered is that even without adding SD3 in the mix, I can’t just sit and play thru all the module’s kits without at some point having mismatches in terms of the extra 4 AUX instruments I’ve connected. I was kinda hoping that if AUX 1 triggered a cymbal sound on one factory kit, it would do so on another but it’s not consistent… meaning it looks like I have no choice but to take an afternoon and reassign instruments to these 2 extra cymbals, extra pad, and BT1 so that there is no mismatch when I play. And then overwrite the kits since what Roland had in mind when they configured them doesn’t match my setup (and not even consistent from one kit to the other so swapping AUX jacks woulnd’t be a solution). Not sure why they don’t make it more consistent.
But while we are discussing modules, do you turn off Local MIDI when using it with SD3? I don’t know if it would make a difference. In my case, I can’t seem to turn if off just for one preset…seems like it turns it off globally on my TD.
BTW, I was able to play a Future Instrument on the BT1 and the PD8. But the BT1 had alot of latency – I’ll have to look deeper into that later.
So I’m just a little confused now.. you were definitely advising against MIDI Learn in the drums tab as it wouldn’t be global, and therefore advised to do it in the eDrums tab… but my understanding now is that you don’t do ANY assignments inside SD3. Is this correct? You just pull up a pack, look at the midi notes firing and then create a matching preset on your module that contains matching assignments? And then whenever you change to a different expansion, you change the preset used on your module? But will this be accurate for all kits in the expansion pack? Or do you need at some point to also use the eDrums tab to customize something? (man, this is complicated! you’d think the industry would have standards by now!)
monospaceYeah, your module’s factory presets will have MIDI note numbers assigned to its built-in sounds. That’s why I suggested creating your own presets, where you can assign mappings that correspond to the note numbers inside of SD3. That way you can still use your module as a standalone, just switch over to one of your own presets when using SD3. And as I explained earlier, it makes sense to create multiple presets for use with different kits/configurations/expansion packs within SD3. Within the SD3 ecosystem, MIDI mappings appear to be fairly consistent, but it’s inevitable that some packs (especially the “monster kits” such as those in Metal Foundry) deviate from the SD3 standard.
I’m a big believer of fixing things at the module first. So I prefer to change MIDI mappings on the module rather than in SD3, but if I need to, I would do it in the E-Drum Settings before I do it on the actual Drums screen. Same for trigger settings such as sensitivity, threshold, curves and the like. Always make sure your triggers and module are dialed in optimally before resorting to tweaking the software. Don’t be afraid to tweak those pad settings even after you’ve selected a Roland pad preset; even two nominally identical pads can have radically different response characteristics.
If you have multiple AUX inputs that are used consistently (i.e. AUX 1 is always a splash, AUX 2 always a cowbell, etc.) it might make sense to map them according to the GM Drum Map. You should have fewer mismatches between Roland kits.
I turn off Local MIDI to avoid having the module trigger its own sounds when I play SD3. Theoretically this helps with reducing latency, but I don’t know that it matters much if you have a recent module. At any rate, that’s a global setting, so if you still play the module’s own sounds as well I’d just leave it on.
Lastly, the BT-1. It has built-in crosstalk reduction abilities, which newer Roland modules allow you to bypass, to get a smoother trigger response. If your module doesn’t have a setting for the BT-1, this discussion over at VDrums.com might be helpful.
E-drummer. eDrumIn trigger interface with various Roland trigger pads. MacBook Pro (mid-2015); MacOS High Sierra; Logic Pro X 10.4.8. Superior Drummer user since 2009.
1
Thanked by: metrosuperstarNo products in the cart.