judahkimHow do I got about gain staging with sd3? The drums tend to come in pretty hot in Logic. Should I be changing velocities in the grid editor or the level of the mixer faders or …just trim them down with a gain plug-in in my DAW?
mickgSorry I don’t have an answer for you. I’m just hanging around because I need to know this myself. Good question. Thanks for asking.
mick
ScottHow do I got about gain staging with sd3? The drums tend to come in pretty hot in Logic. Should I be changing velocities in the grid editor or the level of the mixer faders or …just trim them down with a gain plug-in in my DAW?
Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.1.5
Operating system: macOS Mojave (10.14)
Changing velocities changes the tone of the drum and feel of the performance. Use the faders to adjust volumes.
Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
1
Thanked by: judahkim
Bear-Faced CowAll depending on how you have routed the drums into Logic will determine where you should adjust your gain. If you are using a preset and a stereo instrument, it may be best to use Logic’s instrument tracker fader. If you using multiple outs, you can either adjust the faders in SD3’s output channel or on the aux tracks in Logic.
jord
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Thanked by: judahkimjudahkimThanks! Just so I have it right and to be clear about my configuration, I’m setting up an instrument in logic and using SD3 on said instrument…then selecting the multi outputs option… then hitting the little plus sign on the track to set up aux tracks in order to add the individual drum parts from SD3…then routing all the parts from SD3 to those aux tracks. So, in this routing configuration, using the faders on said aux tracks in logic adjusts the GAIN of each drum part( i. e. kick snare etc) ?
ChadwickDunderc0ckThanks! Just so I have it right and to be clear about my configuration, I’m setting up an instrument in logic and using SD3 on said instrument…then selecting the multi outputs option… then hitting the little plus sign on the track to set up aux tracks in order to add the individual drum parts from SD3…then routing all the parts from SD3 to those aux tracks. So, in this routing configuration, using the faders on said aux tracks in logic adjusts the GAIN of each drum part( i. e. kick snare etc) ?
You can do this? I need this info…
judahkimThanks! Just so I have it right and to be clear about my configuration, I’m setting up an instrument in logic and using SD3 on said instrument…then selecting the multi outputs option… then hitting the little plus sign on the track to set up aux tracks in order to add the individual drum parts from SD3…then routing all the parts from SD3 to those aux tracks. So, in this routing configuration, using the faders on said aux tracks in logic adjusts the GAIN of each drum part( i. e. kick snare etc) ?
You can do this? I need this info…
Yes, Digitalpimple. Here’s a how to link: https://youtu.be/gE-Ok46W5T8
Bear-Faced CowThanks! Just so I have it right and to be clear about my configuration, I’m setting up an instrument in logic and using SD3 on said instrument…then selecting the multi outputs option… then hitting the little plus sign on the track to set up aux tracks in order to add the individual drum parts from SD3…then routing all the parts from SD3 to those aux tracks. So, in this routing configuration, using the faders on said aux tracks in logic adjusts the GAIN of each drum part( i. e. kick snare etc) ?
Use the faders on the aux tracks to set your levels. You might want to set up a track stack as well to organize any extra bus and aux tracks that you might use with SD3, which will then route everything to a main out in your stack which you can then apply buss processing.
jord
Dan WilsonHi Judahkim,
You may want to try…
After setting up the multiple output aux tracks for SD3 in logic, keep the faders at 0dB. Insert a Gain plugin on each track then lower the gain of the track to balance you drums. The advantage of this is with automation, around 0dB the fader has the greatest resolution. If you have to move a fader down, to say -24dB to balance your drum volumes than small movements of the fader in this region can result in large gain changes, whereas around 0dB the same small movements of the fader result in smaller gain changes.
hope this helps.
Dan
Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac
Bear-Faced CowI would not recommend this. That would create more work when mixing. Not less. It can also create a sonic mess at the output causing unnecessary “fix in the mix” movements. There could be other issues as well, such as intersample distortion due to high summing peaks
Pick a key element in your mix and build everything around it and don’t worry about the numbers on the faders. Your ears will tell you where the faders should be.
jord
judahkimI think I need to simplify my question:
In SD3, what control is equivalent to trim/gain?
JohnIf you mean before the SD3 mixer, it would be the instrument’s own Close Mic level fader in the selected channel on the Mixer page.
If you mean for routing to a DAW, the mixer channel fader you are routing, whether it’s a mic fader or bus fader.
BR,
John
John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
1
Thanked by: judahkimBear-Faced CowThanks! Just so I have it right and to be clear about my configuration, I’m setting up an instrument in logic and using SD3 on said instrument…then selecting the multi outputs option… then hitting the little plus sign on the track to set up aux tracks in order to add the individual drum parts from SD3…then routing all the parts from SD3 to those aux tracks. So, in this routing configuration, using the faders on said aux tracks in logic adjusts the GAIN of each drum part( i. e. kick snare etc) ?
Reiterating the above: use the multi-instrument aux faders in Logic. It doesn’t have to be that complicated.
jord
Dan WilsonHi Judahkim,
If you are going to using the multi-instrument option in Logic, which is a very valid option as pointed out by Jord, then put a gain plugin on each aux. Pick one voice of the drum kit that you want to stand out and lower the gain on the other aux sends until you have the balance you want for the drums. It doesn’t mess with anything and your faders stay at 0.
Dan
Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac
Bear-Faced CowAgain, I don’t agree with mixing faders at zero. Aside from not giving a totally accurate mixing picture since all you see are zero faders, you are also losing fader headroom when you want to bring things up on certain parts (and you will in order for the mix to remain energetic and dynamic). Not to mention a lack of perception of the mix when applying pre-fader effects. Plus, if and when you want to use a control surface, you’ll want to maintain better control and have a more accurate picture of your volume (especially with larger track counts) using the fader sliders. From there, route them to a bus/aux channel, which you probably have at 0db. That’s the one you will want to use to adjust your overall drum mix with the rest of your music, apply bus processing, such as a drum bus compressor, tape emulation, parallel compression, etc.
jord
Dan WilsonHi Jord,
I think you miss understand what I am saying and in no way am I trying to be argumentative.
First for gain staging (original post question) set the channels up as I have described so that you have the individual channels peaking around -18 to -12 dB. This gives between 12-18 dbB of head room depending how much gain reduction you use per track. In the case of drums, these channels become your sub mix that then go to a bus where you can control the volume of the drums in your mix.
Second we are saying the same thing when you write … “…if you want to use a control surface, you’ll want to maintain better control and have a more accurate picture of your volume… using the faders.” To me, I interpret your statement as, you want the maximum fader resolution when you mix, which I agree with and this is when the fader is at 0 dB. You still can raise the fader +6 dB if needed or reduce it to -infinity (sorry could find the symbol) if you want to.
I am not saying mix with the gain plugin and all of the faders at 0. If that is the way it came across, that was not my meaning. I meant it only as a way of gain staging each track so you have the necessary head room before you start to mix. In Logic and other DAW (32 bit floating point calculations) this really only matters when you are using plugins that are emulations of hardware like say an 1176 or LA2A compressors etc, as the companies emulate the max signal before distortion. When you write “…route them to a bus/aux channel… That’s the one you will want to use to adjust your overall drum mix…”, again I totally agree with you. All I am saying is, if you gain stage your tracks going into the bus you will have more headroom and less chance of distorting your plugins.
Again, Jord I am not trying to be argumentative, I was only trying to give an answer to the original question about gain staging SD3 tracks in logic and the method I use to solve it.
Dan
Logic X, SD3, SD2, iMac
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