EZKeys 2 – bad sound

[Marcin]

Ok ladies and gentlemen… what is this ringing flangerish spice...

Ok ladies and gentlemen… what is this ringing flangerish spice in high register notes? I just did a side by side comparison will all other pianos I have and it’s definatelly EZKeys 2 (Session Grand Basic, Ballad 1, Ballad 2 etc.). It almost sounds like a very quiet electric piano overlay. It’s really annoying :/

That whas what I posted in one of the FB groups. I’ve got this answer:

“I never liked the sounds of the original ez keys, either. I always composed in ez keys then moved the midi to something like Keyscape. Probably do the same with ezkeys2”

To which I answered:

I have the original EZKeys grand piano too – sounds thin and airless. I was doing what you said, using eg Addictive Keys – already 100 times better. But I had high hopes while awaiting EZKeys 2 and now I’m a bit disappointed. The sound is very wide, warm, really fills the panorama nice, so that part is great. Can tell many good mics were used. But they did something to samples possibly when removing noise or final tuning and they don’t resonate well creating this unpleasant flanger-style reaction. I played more now and individual notes played solo are not bad but it happens when they harmonise with each other. All FX off of course, as dry as it can be. I say it’s a catastrophe.

What do you say guys? Can this be fixed other than re-recording whole library again?

Just wanted to add, it’s well pronounced between C4 and C6.

EZkeys version: 2.0.0
Operating system: Windows 10

• This topic was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by Marcin.
• This topic was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by Marcin.
• This topic was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by Marcin.

Ok ladies and gentlemen… what is this ringing flangerish spice in high register notes? I just did a side by side comparison will all other pianos I have and it’s definatelly EZKeys 2 (Session Grand Basic, Ballad 1, Ballad 2 etc.). It almost sounds like a very quiet electric piano overlay. It’s really annoying :/

That whas what I posted in one of the FB groups. I’ve got this answer:

“I never liked the sounds of the original ez keys, either. I always composed in ez keys then moved the midi to something like Keyscape. Probably do the same with ezkeys2”

To which I answered:

I have the original EZKeys grand piano too – sounds thin and airless. I was doing what you said, using eg Addictive Keys – already 100 times better. But I had high hopes while awaiting EZKeys 2 and now I’m a bit disappointed. The sound is very wide, warm, really fills the panorama nice, so that part is great. Can tell many good mics were used. But they did something to samples possibly when removing noise or final tuning and they don’t resonate well creating this unpleasant flanger-style reaction. I played more now and individual notes played solo are not bad but it happens when they harmonise with each other. All FX off of course, as dry as it can be. I say it’s a catastrophe.

What do you say guys? Can this be fixed other than re-recording whole library again?

Just wanted to add, it’s well pronounced between C4 and C6.

EZkeys version: 2.0.0
Operating system: Windows 10

• This topic was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by Marcin.
• This topic was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by Marcin.
• This topic was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by Marcin.

Topic

[sonicviz]

Sorry about the double post. I submitted the first one and it disappeared immediately so I thought the system had deleted it, and now it’s back.

Had to try to remember what I wrote just a minute before, which is kind of hard because I’m old, deaf, and dumb – but I tried!

Have fun making music with EZKeys 2 kids, it’s great to finally have a reboot isn’t it?

• This post was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by sonicviz.

[Daniel Cairney]

I’m also hearing it. It’s like a ringing in the samples in the upper harmonics. It’s almost like a filter resonating or shutting down.  I put a high shelf filter around 1k and cranked it up 24db and it’s REALLY there.Tried notch filter and harmonic EQ and you have to kill too much to fix it. It’s in all the presets and driving me crazy. Went to the original (vers.1 ) sample set and not there. The rest of the system is beautiful to work with. Absolutely worth the price. Sorry for the bad news.

EZkeys version: 2.0.0
Operating system: Windows 11

[Bear-Faced Cow]

Based on the objective findings of @sonicviz I decided to conduct my own experiment against the raw Fazioli piano samples that I have from another library and measure the EQ spikes and curves of each. They are nearly identical, indicating that the Basic patch in EZK2 is a raw capture showing off all resonant qualities of the Fazioli.

Just like drums, if you’re going to use raw samples, then you should be doing your own processing. You wouldn’t be using all of those frequencies in a mix.

jord

---

Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

2

Thanked by: sonicviz and Brad

[sonicviz]

I did some more playing around. It’s actually a zone where the non-linear interaction between notes and overtones generates all sorts of interesting results.
Not “hearing them” is also not a matter of old age and/or hearing loss because these frequencies are below what those age/music related hearing loss frequencies typcially are (ie: 3khz and up)

It’s more a matter of people experience it in different ways, and some people seem especially sensitive to them.
Psychoacoustics is a real field of study => https://www.larecordingschool.com/psychoacoustics-the-psychology-of-sound

The zone seems to be from ~850hz up to ~1350hz.
An easy way to highlight twitchy frequencies in this band is to create a tight notch filter and whack the gain right up, then sweep across the zone. You’ll know it when you find it.
eg: in Key of C 883hz, 1048hz, 1300hz all produce varying degrees of frisky frequencies. Neutron is useful because you can auto step to note frequencies as well, making it easier to test them.

If these frequencies are overly annoying to you use some EQ to dial them down, but not to the point of destroying the overall tone of the patch.
You can use multiple notch filters, eg: @ 883hz, 1048hz, 1300hz -8db q to taste and static or dynamic filtering, or even just a single EQ to pull that band down a touch to tame it.
Would depend on the key etc as well, and patch. Raw sample multi-outs use different mikes, so you can also play with it there.

Other instruments, samples or synth, do have similar issues. That’s also why we have EQ, so you can adjust to taste.

ps: “ringing” piano tones is a common complaint, with multiple causes.
There’s some interesting discussion in the links below, especially on piano construction and the nature of tone generation on them.
https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2716148/ringing-sound.html
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/annoying-ringing-sound-in-classical-music-piano-recordings.904170/page-2
https://gearspace.com/board/all-things-technical/341373-close-mic-placement-piano-ringing-sounds.html
https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/108242/upright-piano-high-pitched-chime-like-ringing-noise
https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/9508/why-do-f6-and-higher-notes-ring-more-than-f6-and-lower-notes
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/getting-rid-of-ringing-on-a-solo-piano-track.32720/

• The post has been modified 2 times, last modified 2 years, 1 month ago by sonicviz.

[Daniel Cairney]

I can see what you mean. c-4 and c-6 played together produce this. At first it seemed while going through the midi files this was a problem. Once you hear it you can’t “unhear” it. I’m VERY finicky after 30 years of musician/mastering. But yes, IF it bothers you  it’s around 3.2 khz and some work with an eq and the right amount can blend it right in again. There is an incredible headroom to this thing that reaches way up, use it to make up and blend this flaw you hear. I spent 4 hours tinkering and came up with a sound equal to or better than omnisphere. It’s fantastic. Thank you EZ keys for this and all the other wonderful developments. Well worth the money.

EZkeys version: 2.0.0
Operating system: Windows 11

1

Thanked by: sonicviz

[sonicviz]

Great testing and result.

>>I spent 4 hours tinkering and came up with a sound equal to or better than omnisphere. It’s fantastic.

I know we all like to hold our mixmaster secret sauce cards close to our chest somtimes, but I’d be interested technically knowing what you did to get this, if you’re willing to share. Always interested in learning.

I can understand if not though!

>>Toontrack

@moderators Given that this is a common enough Piano sampler issue, and it’s fingernails on a blackboard to some people, I really think it would be to Toontrack’s benefit if they wrote one of their great tutorials explaing this phenomenon, with some examples demonstrating how they get generated and also some example EQ solutions for people to follow. Backed up by video maybe, but not just a video, pita when trying technical settings. It can only be a win all round.

Cross posted to https://www.toontrack.com/forums/topic/tutorial-for-me-and-many-others-like-me/#post-3099142

• The post has been modified 5 times, last modified 2 years ago by sonicviz.

[jazzmandan]

There are dozens of “effects” and pre-sets to choose from.  Can you point to one of these examples to illustrate what you are hearing?

[Daniel Cairney]

Found a better way.  3 band compression, bands set at 200 hz and 2000 hz, take down the middle and raise the low and high bands. Seems to level out enogh as to where the eq  can work out the finishing touches. Also helps Keyscape and pianoteq 8. Best wishes….

[Author]

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