Jim LuttrellI have been having issues with the multi-channel outputs using the drum kits in the three EZDrummer 3 “rooms” (Bright, Main & Tight room). When using any kits within these “rooms” they sound brilliant when all channels are routed to Out 1/2 (the default settings). However, when I try and change the channel routing to a different output (ie. Out 3/4), so that I can send the instruments to different channels on my mixer, there is a volume drop, and, a tonality change. This volume drop and tonality change only happens with the EZDrummer 3 kits, not my EZDrummer 2 kits or the other EZX expansion packs I have. The EZDrummer 2 and EZX kits all work perfectly fine, and there is no volume change or tonality change when they are routed to separate outputs.
For background, I have been primarily testing the kick drum and the snare drum channels as those are my highest priority to send to my mixer as separate outputs for live playing. Here is more detailed explanation of what is happening. I have been primarily using the “Main Room” “Songwriter Classic” drum kit as my main drum sound (it’s awesome through a PA system), and sounds incredible when all outputs are set to Out 1/2 as I indicated above. However, when I change the kick drum to send it out any channel pair like Out 3/4 (or any other combo channels), there is a volume drop for both the kick drum and the snare drum, in addition to a tonality change of the kick drum, and finally, there is a resulting change in the “ambience/reverb” sound, although it is very small. After all the testing I have done, I suspect the ambience/reverb difference is just an artifact in the reduced volume and tonality change of the instruments (snare and kick) that is running through those processors. Although I use the “Main Room Songwriter Classic” drum set most often, I have actually tested every drum kit that comes stock with EZDrummer 3 and they all exhibit the same issue, although the volume difference is less pronounced with some kits (most notably in the Tight Room kits).
For a bit further detail about what is happening, when using the “Main Room Songwriter Classic” kit, when I change the kick drum to a different output channel, the volume of the kick drops almost exactly 5dB, and the kick drum sound (for this particular kit I am testing) goes from having a “clicky” top end to the sound, to less pronounced “click” but there is more low-mid thump. Further to this (which is the really weird artifact) is that the snare drum will also change volume and tonality when I change the output of just the kick channel. The snare drum also drops in volume about 4dB, and the original snare sound has more snare-rattle & longer decay, while after the change the new snare sound (when volume matched) has less snare-rattle and it is a tighter & faster decay sound.
I have been testing this for about 2 weeks isolating different variables, and my family is probably getting furious from me playing drum loops over and over on my main PA system 🙁 .
A bit further info for context. I have been using the EZDrummer 3 standalone software in my Macbook Pro. When I send the kick to a different set of outputs (like Out 3/4), I am sending the stereo pair (Out 3/4) to two stereo channels on my mixer as well, to reduce variables.
In addition to the EZDrummer 3 kits that I am using/testing, I also have the following extra drum sounds loaded on the Macbook to use; EZdrummer 2 Modern, EZdrummer 2 Vintage, Hard Rock EZX, Pop/Rock EZX and Rock Solid EZX. As I mentioned in the first paragraph, I have NO ISSUES whatsoever with the multi-channel routing for any of these EZDrummer 2 core libraries or the EZX packs, there is no volume change or tonality change with those kits when the multichannel routing is changed…it’s just the EZDrummer 3 drum kits where I am experiencing these issues.
Has anyone else noticed any of these problems with the EZDrummer 3 kits? Is there any known bugs that this would be affecting this? Are there any known fixes? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much.
qwerty3333Hello there
Yes i have to separate out all of the individual drum sounds to my DAW because the EZ3 sounds are very dull and lifeless when used with separate channel outs – the snare and kick like you say, but even worse for me is all of the cymbals – they are clangy and noisy and sound bad
I like the features of this software, but I am now using the sounds of my edrums that I was triggering EZ3 with – an old Roland TD9 – no comparison the old roland sounds are very crisp and realistic – its 15 years old
Toontrak service is not good – trying to get help with an issue is difficult – other companies at least offer a chat line for support
Too bad – good products bud terrible service
whaddya gonna do eh?
Bear-Faced CowIt is not a Toontrack issue. It is lacklustre because you are bypassing the bus processing when going multichannel. You need to supply your own bus processing. That’s how multichannel works. Otherwise, just stay using the stereo outputs.
jord
JamesColahHi Jim,
I may be able to resolve this issue for you however you haven’t mentioned what DAW you use?
I use Cubase Pro 12 and there’s a feature called ‘Dissolve Part.’ What this does is creates an individual track for each kit piece.
If for example your drum groove consists of say 8 kit pieces it will create 8 instances of EZdrummer 3 however if you have a multicore CPU those 8 instances will put less strain on your computer.
The great news is that unlike assigning separate outs where all the effects will be bypassed (so you only get a raw sound) doing it my way nothing changes (the original sounds of the kit pieces will remain the same) BUT you can then add as many plugins as you like on each individual kit piece track to enhance each sound even more, so it’s a win win situation!
I hope this helps and also really hope you have some kind of ‘Dissolve Part’ feature in what ever DAW you use?
Have a nice day!
Kind regards
James Colah
https://www.jamescolahproductions.com
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Thanked by: Mac McCormickJamesColahHi querty3333,
Please see my reply to Jim the original poster!
I hope this resolves your issue too?
Kind regards
James Colah
https://www.jamescolahproductions.com
Bear-Faced CowMultiple instances of EZD3 is not a good idea in any respect as now you are defeating the purpose of any bus processing. The end result will be a disjointed and unglued drum mix as there will be no cohesion. If you were looking for a drum machine type of sound then this solution would be adequate. However, this would not work for a proper drum mix.
As I stated previously, unless you have a specific requirement for multi channel, there is no need to go beyond a stereo output. Even when I am using SD3, I can do most of my processing within the plug-in, and then perform my own bus processing on the stereo output within my DAW. The only time I need to use multichannel is when I am applying a certain effect to a bunch of kit pieces such as my favourite distortion plug-in, Devil-loc for parallel compression and distortion.
jord
Jim LuttrellBear Faced Cow, thanks for the reply, however, I don’t believe this is the case.
My setup is like this; I am running EZDrummer 3 on a Macbook Pro. I have a MOTU audio interface hooked up to that Macbook. The MOTU interface has multiple physical audio outputs that I can send audio signals out of. I am then taking those audio outputs and connecting them directly to the microphone inputs of a Behringer X32 mixer which is hooked up to my PA for live use.
I am running the Standalone EZDrummer 3 application (not a VST version through a DAW). When I play the EZDrummer “2” drums sets, or the EZX kits, there is no discernible difference in volume or sound of the drum sets in any way when I send the kick or snare out a different (discreet) set of outputs. All the bus processing is 100% intact and the volumes match perfectly with those drum kits when I send the signals out a different set of audio outputs other than the default stereo pair. However, when I use one of the drum kits that comes standard within the new EZDrummer 3 application, then, and only then, are there any issues with volume differences and tonality differences of those drums when I send an instrument to a different set of outputs than the default stereo pair. And, as I mentioned above, if I send only the kick drum out the separate output, that action also affects the sound and volume of the snare drum as well, which is still being routed out the default stereo outputs…which is completely bizarre.
This leads me to believe that the issue I am experiencing is specific to the drum sets that are packaged within EZDrummer 3…and not with the EZDrummer 3 standalone program/application.
Now, I guess it is possible that Toontrack deliberately programmed the EZDrummer 3 drums kits to operate in this fashion (which is different from the EZDrummer 2 series of drums sets) maybe to address some other issue, or make the new product slightly less desirable (sounds like something Apple would do /sigh) in hopes that someone would upgrade to SD3. However, I am more inclined to think this is some sort of bug where an unintentional filter or EQ is being applied when trying to send an individual instrument signal out a different output other than the default stereo pair.
Jim LuttrellJames, thanks for the reply as well.
In my case I am not actually using a DAW for the purposes of recording, I am running the Standalone EZDrummer 3 application on a Macbook Pro. I have a MOTU audio interface hooked up to that Macbook. I then use the multiple physical output jacks of the MOTU interface to send audio signals via cable inputs of a Behringer X32 mixer which is hooked up to my PA for live use.
I don’t think I can run multiple instances of the standalone EZDrummer 3 application though, however I will play around with it this weekend when I am back home and see if I can try that out.
Bear-Faced CowI don’t believe this is the case
Yes, it is the case. It has nothing to Toontrack or any programming. This is mixing 101. As soon as you route any kit piece away from the main output that has bus processing, you remove the bus processing from it. Whether you use it in standalone or a DAW, the same principles apply.
Bus processing is done on the main outputs. It is meant to both sum and glue all of your channels together. Depending on the preset, you will have different bus processing. Since you are no longer going through the main outputs, your channels will no longer be able to take advantage of it.
If you are going go multi-channel, you need to learn what drum mixing is all about and not blame Toontrack because it sounds different. Otherwise, you are best to remain using the main stereo outs because you don’t appear to be deriving any real advantage from going multichannel. Whether you take my advice or not, the principles still apply regardless.
Jord
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