EZ-Keys selecting incorrect key signature

[michaelfjacob]

If you take a look at the attached screen shots,...

If you take a look at the attached screen shots, I loaded a midi file from the Ballads collection. Based on the chord progression, it is clear that this is the key of G major, but the software identifies it as C major. As seen in the second screen shot, I switched the key signature to G major it changes the chords to a progression that is actually D major. Can anyone explain to me whats going on there? Thank you!!

If you take a look at the attached screen shots, I loaded a midi file from the Ballads collection. Based on the chord progression, it is clear that this is the key of G major, but the software identifies it as C major. As seen in the second screen shot, I switched the key signature to G major it changes the chords to a progression that is actually D major. Can anyone explain to me whats going on there? Thank you!!

Topic

[Bear-Faced Cow]

It will be interesting to see what TT says about it. If it is metadata, then you’re right, it is a simple fix. Might be tedious, but simple.

You can probably work around the issue by double clicking the regions and transposing them to the right key in their property box.

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

[Scott]

If you are using the latest version of the Ballads EZkeys MIDI (1.0.1) I’ll let the programmers know. Can you confirm you’re on 1.0.1 on the Ballads EZkeys MIDI?

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[michaelfjacob]

Confirmed.  I am on Ballads EZkeys midi 1.0.1

[Bear-Faced Cow]

While you are at it, please ask about the Horrors pack. I am noticing a similar phenomenon with that. I don’t experience  this with any other packs that I have.

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

• The post has been modified 2 times, last modified 4 years, 5 months ago by Bear-Faced Cow.

[ed miller]

Reading this thread after having posted in others on the same issue, double clicking and changing the key doesn’t work.

For whatever reason it seems that No Matter the Pack, Ez keys is just centering around the major key tonal centers.

If I set my key to F minor I expect to SEE and Fm chord once in awhile not Ab majors everywhere. 🙂

This seems at least for me to be a systemic issue as I have gone thru all my midi packs and tried it and gotten the same sort of results each time.

It looks likes it just taking the midi and transposing to whatever Major key is selected even if you have minor selected.

example, select F minor before I ever drag a midi,  comes out in Ab major, Change key to D major, chords are in D major, change to Em, chords are not in G major.

Now I can manually go thru and change everything but that takes time that Ez keys is supposed to help you avoid 🙂

So I am not convinced the problem is related to a specific midi pack as it is to an issue in the engine itself.

This is running Ez 1.3.0 and all midis show 1.0 with no updates waiting.

[michaelfjacob]

Hey Ed, you might be on to something there.  I just tried out some of my other midi packs.  Americana is working as expected, but Piano Pop has the issue.  I also tried the Blues pack and noticed the 12 bar blues was correct but one of the jazzy blues progressions was wrong.  Perhaps the system is working correctly for the most basic progressions, but gets confused with more complex chord structures.  If that’s right, that would be a more complicated problem to fix because it would be in the chord analysis algorithms, not just simple metadata in the midi packs.

[Bear-Faced Cow]

Hardly systemic. DAWs behave exactly the same: they treat the major/relative minor key signature as one.

Changing a key signature is not about the tonal centre. Circle of fifths is. Changing the key signature will transpose the progression, not transmogrify it into a minor key all of a sudden. It would be no different if you transposed the region manually in the region property.

Sounds more like a case of unmet expectation from a piece of MIDI software than a bug. Probably best to submit it as a feature request and see if they’d be willing to take up the challenge.

As far as the OP’s issues, I can confirm that the Horror MIDI is doing the same thing. All of the other packs are not. I’ve managed to work around it transposing it manually. It’s definitely not a program issue in this case.

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

[ed miller]

Key signatures and Circle of 5th are literally just two ways of looking at the exact same information. You change the key you change the tonal center. Or the tonal home if you will. Maybe a better way of putting it. Whatever either way changing keys in Ez doesn’t do that.

However you may be correct. That might be just my miss conception of what Ez can do

Buts it all related.  Anyway they will either fix it, add it, or one learns to work around it.

[Bear-Faced Cow]

You change the key you change the tonal center. Or the tonal home if you will.

This is not only incorrect, but is a myopic view of key signatures as well. Key signatures are basically a rule as to how a scale or progression would sound. However, western diatonic key signatures embodies seven tonal centres within it, all depending on which note of the major scale you begin with. Stating whether a key signature is the major or its relative minor does not define the tonal center. The progression itself defines the tonal  center.  The key signature is just a rule as to how that tunnel centre is supposed to sound. Most of the midi packs, or at least the ones that I have, are only representing two most popular tonal centres within a key signature. They are not the only ones, and I am willing to bet that if they were done in a midi pack, people as yourself might view them as incorrect. I witnessed some examples on some of the audio production forums where people stated that the solo was tonally wrong, but it wasn’t because it started on a more unusual note in the scale.

Whatever either way changing keys in Ez doesn’t do that.

It changes the key, as it should. It doesn’t change the progression that is relative to the key. Nor would I want it to, especially if I had a progression based on something other than the major or its relative minor.  If I had crafted a Phrygian (songs like opening of Space Oddity) or Mixolydian (songs like Sweet Home Alabama) or the unlikely Locrian (opening of YYZ) progression there is no way I would want them altered as they are still relative to whatever key signature is represented and are very relevant.

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

• The post has been modified 2 times, last modified 4 years, 5 months ago by Bear-Faced Cow.

[Scott]

This is from Toontrack Support:

“It appears that when this MIDI was created the wrong key was assigned to the MIDI. This seems to be the case with a couple EZK MIDI add-ons. We have forwarded this to the programmers

so it can hopefully be fixed.

One workaround is to right-click the MIDI in the EZK song track and use the Transpose option to shift those notes to the correct key.”

No ETA on a fix.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

2

Thanked by: Bear-Faced Cow and michaelfjacob

[Bear-Faced Cow]

That is essentially what I am doing at the moment. Thank you, Scott, for looking into this.

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

1

Thanked by: Scott

[guayomerino]

What a disappointment : EZ keys keeps on changing all chords and positions after importing a midi file.

Can someone fix this issue. Is not a minor one…

EZkeys version: 1.3.0
Operating system: Windows 10

[Billy 86]

Concerning that this continues to be an issue after, gulp, 5 years? Can that be right?

SD3, EZD, EZ Keys 1&2, EZ Bass. Win10, i9/9900, all SSDs, 64g RAM, Cakewalk, Studio One

[michaelfjacob]

Yeah, unfortunately, it is right.  All of us here on this thread  have invested a good amount of time testing and documenting steps to reproduce the issue. The response from support that Scott posted confirms the root cause is an incorrect key assigned in the midi.  That response also said there was no ETA on a fix but the transpose function from the context menu can be used as a workaround.

[Billy 86]

Have been following along on this thread, and now add me to those not understanding what EZ Keys is doing in the Key selector. My issue occurs when selecting a tonic for a song key.

Just bought a new MIDI pack, Power Ballads and things are sideways. Same issue in Rock Ballads, Emotional Ballads, Country Pop, Piano Pop, Americana… and more.

For example, I want to write in the key of Em (the relative minor of G Major). Em should be the tonic/root. I set the key to Em and drag in Midi from the Library, and all the progressions are in the key of G. Thus, a I-IV-V in Em should be Em-Am-B Major. But I get the chord progressions relative to the G Major scale: G-C-D. The Em is being treated like the vi chord in the key of G, not the I chord (tonic). G is being treated like the root/tonic chord.

Clicking between G and Em in the Key selector has no impact whatsoever on the chord progressions in the song track. I read  (from 2015):

Unfortunately, that doesn’t work for this issue.

EZkeys version: 1.3.0
Operating system: Windows 10

SD3, EZD, EZ Keys 1&2, EZ Bass. Win10, i9/9900, all SSDs, 64g RAM, Cakewalk, Studio One

[Author]

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