Exporting drum tracks with multiout?

[LeanderL]

Hey! What is the best way to export drum tracks...

Hey!

What is the best way to export drum tracks with multiout? I could record the drums by soloing a multiout channel, BUT recording a different out again uses different samples as they are taken from a pool…playing/recording a midi several times to export one out per file does not use the same samples, correct?

How should this be done?

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

Hey!

What is the best way to export drum tracks with multiout? I could record the drums by soloing a multiout channel, BUT recording a different out again uses different samples as they are taken from a pool…playing/recording a midi several times to export one out per file does not use the same samples, correct?

How should this be done?

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

Topic

[Brad]

Hi there,

1- Thank you! But why should I disable bleeds? Won’t this disable the bleeds in the OH? I have bleeds in the OH (all kit pieces) and kick and toms bleeds in the snare channel.

I assumed your mixer did not want the bleeds from the drums with the OH channel, I believed this was one of the issues.

2- Is there a way to directly add the comp effect to the snare track so I will only have one snare file?

You could use the same output as your SnareOut for the additional bus, however this would give your mixer less control.

Apologies if I am not understanding the issues correctly.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.4.2
Operating system: macOS Tahoe (26)

Mac Studio M1 Ultra, RAM 64 GB, 1TB Drive, OSX 13.x-15.x and Windows 10 (VM)
DAW: Fender Studio Pro 8, Presonus Studio One Pro 7
DTX Express III (Extreme triggers), Nektar LX88
OWC Thunderbay Mini (4 X 1TB Sata SSD), Express 4M2 (4 X 2TB M.2 SSD), Envoy Express (1TB M.2 SSD)
Presonus Quantum, Faderport & Faderport 8
Black Lion Sparrow Mk2 A/D, FMR-RNP-RNC, MIDI Xpress 128, BM5A, KRK VXT4, Equator D5
2020 Macbook Pro 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD Audio(mobile rig)

• The post has been modified 2 times, last modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Brad.

1

Thanked by: Scott Eshleman

[LeanderL]

Thank you! He wants to have the bleeds. I disabled the crashes and other cymbals there as I want to create a single wav with just crashes, chinas and splashes without bleeds.
Ah, now I understand…snare bus + snare comp bus -> both to snare out…

Thank you!

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[Brad]

Hi there,

Sounds like you’re sorted out now, yes?

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.4.2
Operating system: macOS Tahoe (26)

Mac Studio M1 Ultra, RAM 64 GB, 1TB Drive, OSX 13.x-15.x and Windows 10 (VM)
DAW: Fender Studio Pro 8, Presonus Studio One Pro 7
DTX Express III (Extreme triggers), Nektar LX88
OWC Thunderbay Mini (4 X 1TB Sata SSD), Express 4M2 (4 X 2TB M.2 SSD), Envoy Express (1TB M.2 SSD)
Presonus Quantum, Faderport & Faderport 8
Black Lion Sparrow Mk2 A/D, FMR-RNP-RNC, MIDI Xpress 128, BM5A, KRK VXT4, Equator D5
2020 Macbook Pro 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD Audio(mobile rig)

[Korken]

I too understood (assumed, actually) that your mixer didn’t want the bleeds, and because of this you were muting all channels but one and rendered one by one. If your mixer do want the bleeds, then I would say the best method is to use multioutput with a normal render of all at once. I don’t get the issue with that, sorry.

1

Thanked by: drumjack52

[drumjack52]

Korken wrote:

I too understood (assumed, actually) that your mixer didn’t want the bleeds, and because of this you were muting all channels but one and rendered one by one. If your mixer do want the bleeds, then I would say the best method is to use multioutput with a normal render of all at once. I don’t get the issue with that, sorry.

You’re not the only (save for the OP) that doesn’t see the issue with doing normal multiout to individual daw tracks. Nothing to be sorry about. But be aware that the OP doesn’t take kindly to telling him what not to do but instead giving him a method that works.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[LeanderL]

Korken wrote:

I too understood (assumed, actually) that your mixer didn’t want the bleeds, and because of this you were muting all channels but one and rendered one by one. If your mixer do want the bleeds, then I would say the best method is to use multioutput with a normal render of all at once. I don’t get the issue with that, sorry.

The problem is that someone helped me build my kit. He created a parallel compression bus and out. My kit sounds good inside SD3, but I have to export the tracks…and exporting a wav file with compressed stuff is not ideal and a bad idea according to the mixer.

If the kit is like that:

Kick.wav
Snare.wav
Toms.wav
….
Overheads.wav
Ambience.wav
Comp.wav -> parallel compression of the kick, snare, toms etc. etc.

Of course my mixer could listen to the comp.wav file and then add sends to the kick, snare, toms etc. and create a new parallel compression on his computer.
But I programmed the midi for my compression…different compressions affect if there is a crescendo or hits sound alike because of too much compression.

I want to use the exact drum kit sound I have, but have to export it…
I also talked to the creator of the drum kit channels, the comp bus/out. He said that reworking the kit WITHOUT a comp bus and out is not easy as everything uses parallel compression and you cannot just add the FX there ontop the kick, snare etc.

I will try what Brad suggested.

Drumjack, you have a bad attitude, telling others what to think of me. How old are you, 15? I think Korken and I are old enough to talk to each other without your interference. Thank you.

EDIT Brad, is this what you suggested? I created a new bus from the snare bus…and redirected the snare bus send from the comp bus to the new snare comp bus. Then the snare bus goes to snare out and the snare comp bus also goes to the snare out. Please note that I forgot to lower the snare comp bus fader.
Now I don’t know what to do with the old “comp out”. The FX of the comp bus sit ontop the snare comp bus now…but at the end of the entire comp chain, there are two FX sitting ontop the “comp out”. They compress the signal even more…what should I do with them? Should I simply move them ontop the snare out, indicated by the red line and the “?” in my screenshot?

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

• This post was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by LeanderL.

[Brad]

Hi there,

Wow, this looks pretty complicated. The preset designer is 100% correct, what I suggested, deconstructing the kit, will completely change overall sound, because you will loose the interaction on the parallel compression channel. I probably said something like that already, apologies if I am repeating myself.

The objective of my suggested approach, was to create a compression channel for each instrument “type” kick, snare and toms and not have them sending to Comp Out which would then only have OH, Reverb and Ambient Microphones left on it. These instrument only files may or may not be of use to your mixer, that’s what I originally suggested sending them to separeate outputs and creating separate files for them. This is a technical solution to separate the kit from the Comp Out and still have compressed tracks if that is something you think you might need.

Now unfortunatley comes my opinion…:) It’s from the: “just because you can, doesn’t mean you should”, department.

In all honesty. I think your original mix settings are fine. And it probably results in the overall sound you’re after. If it were me, I would send the “mixer”, wave files from: Kick Out, Snare Out, Toms Out, HH Out, OH Out, Amb Out and Rvb Out. Send the Comp Out too. Just tell your mixer to use it or not use it. Realistically your mixer can create a “Parallel Comp” channel if one is required in whatever DAW he/she is mixing in.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.4.2
Operating system: macOS Tahoe (26)

Mac Studio M1 Ultra, RAM 64 GB, 1TB Drive, OSX 13.x-15.x and Windows 10 (VM)
DAW: Fender Studio Pro 8, Presonus Studio One Pro 7
DTX Express III (Extreme triggers), Nektar LX88
OWC Thunderbay Mini (4 X 1TB Sata SSD), Express 4M2 (4 X 2TB M.2 SSD), Envoy Express (1TB M.2 SSD)
Presonus Quantum, Faderport & Faderport 8
Black Lion Sparrow Mk2 A/D, FMR-RNP-RNC, MIDI Xpress 128, BM5A, KRK VXT4, Equator D5
2020 Macbook Pro 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD Audio(mobile rig)

• The post has been modified 2 times, last modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Brad.

[drumjack52]

LeanderL: I’ve spent almost 74 years on this third rock from the sun and I’ve learned a lot that I try and pass on. Not afraid to call someone on something especially when I think they are making things more complicated than they need to be. Yeah – I’m direct and have no bad feelings about that. I’ll tell someone what I think – whether either they like it or not ain’t my problem. Also not afraid to tell someone when I think they are wrong. I guess some people can’t take my being direct.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[Korken]

Hello LeanderL,

I understand now what you want, but I must tell you I don’t understand why you work this way. I am just an amateur mixer, but in some years I learned some things. I can tell you my opinion about workflow: I don’t think it is a good idea you try to get the PERFECT drum sound before the files go to the person who will mix them. I wouldn’t bother creating and automating channels with compression in the composition stage. Those are tasks that are part of the mixing stage and even after a static mix stage (a mixing stage without effects, where you set levels and pannings, taking into account the whole song and not only the drums). Only when you are in the mixing stage you can try parallel channels with what you want (whole kit parallel compression, snare+kick parallel compression, snare+kick parallel distortion, toms parallel distortion and all what you want). But all this serving the whole mix. It can happen that you must lower a parallel channel or even eliminate it, because it doesn’t serve the song. It can happen too, that you solo the snare and it sounds like crap, but it sounds perfect in the context of the mix. Same applies to a voice, too: maybe, in order to a voice sounds good in a song, you must sacrifice some frequencies in it, what makes that it sounds not so good in solo.

I am afraid that, if you finally manage to send the mixer the files with your perfect sound, that person must decide to change it, in order that your whole song sounds perfect, or at least good.

In a few words: let the mixer do the job with the parallel automated channels, only after all composition is done. You can maybe give instructions regarding what kind of sound you are after.

EDIT:

and regarding this

and exporting a wav file with compressed stuff is not ideal and a bad idea according to the mixer.

I don’t see the problem that you render that track anyway and send it together with the rest, if it doesn’t affect other drum channels. Then the mixer will decide how to mix it with the rest and even can decide to add other parallel channels. For example, some SD3 libraries include channels that were recorded with hardware compressors. If I wanted to render a kit I would include that channel into the individual wavs and then would decide how to mix it during my mixing stage.

• The post has been modified 2 times, last modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Korken.

3

Thanked by: Scott Eshleman, drumjack52 and Brad

[Brad]

Well said.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.4.2
Operating system: macOS Tahoe (26)

Mac Studio M1 Ultra, RAM 64 GB, 1TB Drive, OSX 13.x-15.x and Windows 10 (VM)
DAW: Fender Studio Pro 8, Presonus Studio One Pro 7
DTX Express III (Extreme triggers), Nektar LX88
OWC Thunderbay Mini (4 X 1TB Sata SSD), Express 4M2 (4 X 2TB M.2 SSD), Envoy Express (1TB M.2 SSD)
Presonus Quantum, Faderport & Faderport 8
Black Lion Sparrow Mk2 A/D, FMR-RNP-RNC, MIDI Xpress 128, BM5A, KRK VXT4, Equator D5
2020 Macbook Pro 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD Audio(mobile rig)

2

Thanked by: Korken and drumjack52

[drumjack52]

Agreed with everything. What I would add is for both creator and mixer to get together at either one’s place and sit down and discuss in front of the daw computer what to do. It would be worth the time/effort/money. Provide the mixer examples/reference songs of the sound being sought. Maybe watch a few videos on mixing. I’m not saying that LeanderL has to learn mixing (although that would not be a bad idea) but pick up a few ideas on how to go about crafting things.

There’s an old axiom in music production: never judge something sound-wise when solo’d but in context.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

1

Thanked by: Korken

[Korken]

I can add another thing to the soup, that I forgot to mention: I participate in a mixing community, leaded by a professional. I learned there that it is not rare that the pros discard some drum tracks in the mixing stage. For example, the one who lead us said that he rarely uses the hihat mic track and he works only with the hihat sound already in the overheads. That doesn’t mean it is a rule: he will use the hihat track if needed. Or that he uses the bottom snare track only when he sees he will need it. Or that not all songs need parallel compression or a lot of punch in snare and/or kick.

In some posts, LeanderL, I read you were worried about levels of different kit pieces, to be able to export with perfect balance. I would just forget about it. To achieve that level balance is a job for the mixer, guided by your instructions, ideally. It is a good idea, though, that you give instructions about the panning you want for every piece, as many of the tracks you will be providing will be in mono, unless you decide to export all in stereo, what I wouldn’t do, by the way.

What I want to say in short is that all these are things that are decided in the mixing stage.

1

Thanked by: drumjack52

[drumjack52]

I’d like to add something further – always provide more tracks than you think is needed at mixing stage. Tracks both with and without any effects whether it be eq, compression, reverb and the worst effect – limiting. That’s why I never use presets or effects in SD3 but record every output from the SD3 multiout to individual tracks in ProTools. I do all my own mixing so I have maximum options. And I never bake effects into a track because that would make it difficult to make effective mix decisions.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

1

Thanked by: Korken

[LeanderL]

@Brad & Korken Thanks for your helpful post! Yes, my mixer wanted to have dry files anyway, but I wanted to use wet ones…I have made music for 30 years…always without much technical knowledge. I am a passionate creative mind that writes lyrics and songs. I used to do everything on my own without knowing anything about mixing. Just did it my way, sometimes lucky, sometimes not…underground sound did not matter in the 90s…but then the libraries and software became better and better, I bought A LOT of equipment…got health problems (tendon sheath, could not play the guitar and piano much or not at all for 2 years…still can only jam, but not play as I want to)…over the years, I have written 4 hours of music, but because I wanted to do everything on my own AND not knowing much about the technical things and always afraid to make mistakes, I wasn’t able to release music for many, many years…

I’ve bought and tested dozens of guitar plugins and tones…then needed a year to pick the sound I like best.
Same for the drum sound. Or “play the Korg Triton VSTi”, which is fast vs. “program realistic strings in the highly professional very expensive orchestral libraries I also own.

As I don’t want to release my “precious and beloved” music with my crappy sound, but I want to do everything on my own, I was stuck…

That’s why asking a mixer for help is VERY difficult to me. It’s like giving away your baby to someone you don’t know.
After spending years selecting the drum sound, guitar tone etc. I like it is difficult to send dry files…and not do everything on my own..but it is not possible to release songs without changing my approach.

So yes, normally, it makes sense to send your raw drums to a mixer who mixes and shapes everything…but it is my beloved drum sound and tone…so having to send him the comp file to listen to and he recreates it makes sense…and is the best solution, but difficult as I want MY sound…

My approach is that I send my files, he checks them for overlapping frequencies, makes them louder by sticking to the original sound as close as possible!
And I also tell him how to pan everything…

I know what I want and also how to pan etc…the only things I really don’t understand are EQ, compressor, limiter and stuff like that.

The bottom like is that it is a very difficult topic…the best solution is to send him what I got minus the comp track and he should do the parallel compression…but it has to work with my velocities….learning EQ and stuff is not a solution as I could not make progress in 30 years.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

1

Thanked by: Brad

[Korken]

That’s why asking a mixer for help is VERY difficult to me. It’s like giving away your baby to someone you don’t know.
After spending years selecting the drum sound, guitar tone etc. I like it is difficult to send dry files…and not do everything on my own..but it is not possible to release songs without changing my approach.

Well, take into account that a lot of pro musicians give their babies to someone and they get their desired sound if they are involved in the process. But I understand what you say. In my case, I am learning to mix since years not because I don’t want to give my tracks to a stranger, but because I like and enjoy that process. Regardless what you say, I think to give the mixer processed files will make his life very difficult. He won’t be able to solve problems that you have caused in some tracks, for example. I think a good solution is what I said here as answer:

and exporting a wav file with compressed stuff is not ideal and a bad idea according to the mixer.

I don’t see the problem that you render that track anyway and send it together with the rest, if it doesn’t affect other drum channels. Then the mixer will decide how to mix it with the rest and even can decide to add other parallel channels. For example, some SD3 libraries include channels that were recorded with hardware compressors. If I wanted to render a kit I would include that channel into the individual wavs and then would decide how to mix it during my mixing stage.

or what Jack says in his last post:

always provide more tracks than you think is needed at mixing stage. Tracks both with and without any effects whether it be eq, compression, reverb and the worst effect – limiting

If you manage so that all your beloved processing, that you want in your sound, lives in separated channels that you can export, then the sound can be (ideally) reconstructed in the mixing stage.

And take into account too, that sometimes some of that super sounds we achieve and are very happy with, get pretty buried in the context of the mix, so being extremely meticulous can be counterproductive in many cases.

• This post was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Korken.

1

Thanked by: drumjack52

[Author]

Replies